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Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
Two singles running 360 degrees out from each other Ian - ie akin to a 360 parallel twin. This would produce a smoother power pulse output than any other V-Twin config that comes to mind and that might be easier on the shaft drive?
14/07/2025 15:06:43 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
Looking at the crank on a NTV600 Revere (which is a V-Twin shafty) the crank looks remarkably similar to the VS600.
https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-ntv600-revere-1989-k-england_model3733/partslist/E__...
14/07/2025 16:39:21 UTC
Ian Soady¹ said :-
They also remind me of the Scott crank. A 2 stroke (sorry Ren) parallel twin which had a central flywheel and overhung (cantilevered) crankpins at 180 degrees. You could replace the big end rollers by taking a little door off the crankcase side! You can just see the big end in this photo.
15/07/2025 10:21:21 UTC
nab301 said :-
I found an interesting video on Scott crankshaft assembly which seems quite involved with 2 tapers , requiring building the crank into the cases to calculate the end float and then disassembly again (splitting the crank tapers ) to fit the required shims... I'm not sure how that compares to a V4 500 LC
Nigel
15/07/2025 12:41:06 UTC
Ian Soady¹ said :-
Yes, I did hanker after a Scott for a while till I realised just how involved they are. Velocette singles also had a strange bottom end as the final drive was outside the primary rather than inside it. This gave a very narrow stiff crankcase but that used taper roller main bearings and had to be assembled with about .004" (.1mm) preload so that when the cases expanded the crank would rotate freely.
That layout also led to the notorious Velo clutvh although I have to say that on the Venom I had the clutch was pretty good.
15/07/2025 15:43:11 UTC
Glyn said :-
As usual, it would appear that I was completely wrong there, my apologies. Indeed Ed, it would appear that there are 2 crankpins on the VS600 acording to the parts list you found. It does not sound like a parallel twin though. I think the Harley Davidsons do have a single crank pin.
If you type into Google "Do Suzuki VS600 twins have a single crankpin" the answer is yes together with an explanation.
15/07/2025 20:25:03 UTC
Glyn said :-
Oh incidentally, here is the current stable line up. The BMW goes Thursday.
15/07/2025 20:27:38 UTC
Ian Soady¹ said :-
Funny how everything gets tidier when the bikes are together. Nice choices you have there - was it easy to seel the BM?
16/07/2025 09:58:20 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
It is surely an eclectic collection Glyn! Sports bike, cafe racer ex touring bike, and a cruiser. I suppose you can argue 2 of them have proper engines too.
What's the plan with the Suzuki? Tidy and polish or does it require more?
16/07/2025 10:16:02 UTC
Glyn said :-
Selling the BMW was not easy Ian but essential because I felt I could not ride it safely as I’m simply too short. Seems like a lot of bike (and in perfect fettle) to only be worth a touch under £2k but I knew this one was for the interest of doing it and not for any financial gain. The Suzuki is to ride. It’s generally up together and fully legal and so I will see the summer out with a few rides out. The seat height is a very nice 27” and the entire bike is just a tad over 200kg. All this suits me rather well. There will be some winter spanner work to bring it closer to my liking condition wise. Another added bonus is that Mrs Glyn has passed the rear seat as fit for purpose and is planning a few weekends away. With my feet firmly on the ground she can wobble around on the back viewing this, that, and the other, without quite so much risk of us falling over at the traffic lights.
16/07/2025 17:59:30 UTC
Occasional Lurker said :-
Hello again folks, I recall someone asked that I "keep you all posted", regards my left-hand drive CB250 Nighthawk...
I actually bought it without a test ride, because I remember with fondness, the happy times I had with a very similar Honda CD250U back in 1989 to 1990... When the Nighthawk was delivered, I knew I had give it some care and TLC ... First on the list was a new chain ... and sprockets... BUT, that meant ordering a centre-stand prior to commencement of work. So, whilst waiting for Blackpool Honda to come up with the goods, It had an oil change, lubrication to everything that moved, including cables... and a deep clean into every nook and cranny .... Somebody please wake up Ren, I fear he's switched off at this point ...
So, with the bike serviced, and shining like a new pin, the first time out was upon me ... Oh my God, what a "let-down"... I have never ridden a bike so "low-geared" ... The front sprocket was a 14 tooth job, ( factory standard), and the rear sprocket was also standard, (33 tooth)... I had only replaced like for like ... and this was like driving a wagon stuck in "low-range" ...
A quick look on-line, soon had me slamming the lap-top closed, and perusing just what I could do to make this little beauty, more "long-legged" ... I even thought of having the rear wheel re-rimmed and spoked, to increase it from 16 inch, to 17 inch, but that would risk fouling the bodywork under the seat, along with a new tyre as well ... So, sprockets were deemed to be the only way to go ...
The choice of sprockets, for it's 520 chain, seemed to be the only alternative... These were, 1 tooth more, (15), for the front, and 3 teeth less, at the rear... These were delivered today, and duly fitted ...
OH WOW..!! It worked ..!! I haven't turned it into a Motorway blasting "mile-muncher"... It's still a lightweight 250cc "tiddler, with 20 horses straining at the reigns ... All of it's power is right where you want it, in the real world of 30 to 50 mph speed limits ... It's Bloody Lovely..!! I reckon we're going to get along just fine ... Now, to try posting a picture ... Regards, Tony .... No joy ..!! I shall ask Ren to Magic it from my phone to his site ... I promise to get some IT lessons from a tech-savvy friend ...
16/07/2025 21:38:46 UTC
Glyn said :-
Well done Tony. There’s nothing worse than spending time and money on a rebuild/renovation/ tart up, only to find it a disappointing ride. It’s hard to keep going at that point. I’m having some poor running issues on the TZR and almost cant face taking the carbs off once again. I have to admit that I bought the Suzuki online and even picked it up (120 miles from home), put it in the van, and only started the engine when I got it home. It runs perfectly but I’m amazed I took such a lack of care in the purchase, Rose tinted glasses I guess. Great to hear you’ve got what you expected after changing the sprockets.
17/07/2025 07:48:55 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
Here we go Tony. Eee by eck worrisit wi you folks? I have Bogger on the phone the other day trying to upload text to a website by copy-pasting a word file into the text box.
There is no hope...
17/07/2025 08:16:34 UTC
Ian Soady¹ said :-
My trouble when buying bikes is that I've convinced myself before I've evn seen it. Rose tinted goggles indeed. However, I've never bought one that I haven't managed to get to a decent standard.
For those of you havinbg sleepless nights with my non-electric starting Norton, I discovered that after breaking one of the piddly little pins that bring the pawls into engagement with the rathchet, one pawl had been quite badly damaged. Of course there are absoltely non available.
I asked a question on a model engineering forum re better pins and had some excellent advice. What's more, one of the contributors, a retired gunsmith up in Ren's neck of the woods, offered to reface the pawls with hard material. As I'm in the last chance saloon I took him up on his offer.
These are the damaged pawls - the worst one circled top left:
17/07/2025 10:09:58 UTC
Ian Soady¹ said :-
This is them built up, and with one tidied up:
17/07/2025 10:12:19 UTC
Ian Soady¹ said :-
And this is the finished job. Hopefully they will be back with me in a couple of days. I did try very hard to find someone local to do the job but drew a blank - unusual as there are many trades in Redditch. Although not the thousand of Birmingham in its heyday.
17/07/2025 10:13:44 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
We can still make things up north Ian - because we're too darn tight to buy them! I'm struggling for scale here Ian - the pawls look massive on that vice? Like almost 2cm long? Is it a tiny vice or are these pawls big pawls?
18/07/2025 07:42:03 UTC
Ian Soady¹ said :-
They are indeed about 2cm long (or 1.125" to be precise).
As I say I was surprised not to find someone local although I'm sure there will be a bloke in a draughty shed somewhere. I have a copy of Kelly's Directory for Birmingham dating back to the 1950s and it includes a comprehensive listing of all businesses by type. Yell / checkatrade etc are useless in comparison, and search engines only work if the company has a website which many of these people don't.
18/07/2025 10:03:47 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
You will have to furnish us with an image of the pawls installed Ian so I can understand why such large pawls are being used. I was expecting something akin to the pawls in a bicycle freewheel.
18/07/2025 13:48:24 UTC
Ian Soady¹ said :-
There are only 3 of them to drive a 400cc twin so need to be substantial. I can do a write up on how it works (now I've worked it all out) if you're interested. One of the several weak points is the lack of backfire protection which I suspect has been the issue on one or two occasions.
18/07/2025 16:53:31 UTC
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