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Ian Soady¹ said :-
Dare I hope*....
... but I think I may have solved the Norton Electra starting problem. Some of you will recall that I've tried various things but never got the reliable starting (electric) that I want and expect. Finally I think I've seen the light. I've reassembled everything with all new mechanical parts, charged the batteriy(ies) up and gave it a try. The solenoid thunked in satisfactorily but the starter motor barely budged. What's more when I put a voltmeter across the battery it was dropping to 7 volts or so when trying to start.
So I left it on the naughty step overnight. The next morning, it was the work of but a few minutes to strip the primary chaincase and assorted mechanical parts and get the motor on the bench. Two screws had the innards out and ready for inspection a bit like Caesar's soothsayers. I discovered that one of the live brush leads (there are 2 live brushes and 2 earth) had worn through its insulating cover. This lead is next to the aluminium end cap which is supposed to have a fibre collar to obviate shorting out. This collar had been replaced at some time with PVC insulating tape and this had rucked up just where the brush lead was close to the end cap allowing contact. So what I deduce was happening was that the brush lead was shorting to earth on the end cap. What's more, I believe there's been a partial short there all along so reducing the available voltage from the battery. I would probably never have found this if it hadn't failed completely.
I made a new insulating collar out of a soft drink bottle and stuck it in with silicone, and wrapped the brush lead in PVC tape. A few minutes of reassembly and time to try it. Was I astonished when the engine burst into life at the first attempt? And even more that it ran for a few minutes, I could switch it off and restart instantly which it would never so before. And even left overnight it started first press of the button. I'm not yet confident enough to take it out on the road so had a celebratory lap of the local roads on the B'Zuki which is running very well.
This has been a real struggle. I've ended up replacing all the mechanical parts of the starter drive to give the whole thing a decent chance of working. I've also fitted a Wassell copy of the Amal Concentric Supreme carb although none of this made any difference before fixing the short. I'll keep the carb on as the original monobloc is fairly worn and parts for them are quite expensive - the new carb was only £112 and it's a nicely made bit of kit.
Ren- you did suggest at some time I did a wrtite up on how the system works. I suspect there's only thee and me who'd be interested - and I'm not so sure about thee. But will do so in the near future.
*as John Cleese once said (in the film Clockwork - the only time I've felt sympathetic towards him): “It's not the despair. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand"
18/08/2025 15:19:33 UTC
nab301 said :-
Ian that's potentially great news.. luckily it didn't all spontaneously combust, add me to the list of interested
Nigel
18/08/2025 15:58:55 UTC
Glyn said :-
And me too Ian. Well done on the fix, it’s great to win even if it takes longer than hoped.
I’ve actually ordered a new LED headlight for the Intruder now Nigel. I will let you know how that works out.
18/08/2025 22:07:14 UTC
Ian Soady¹ said :-
On a slightly different topic....
Some years ago I bookmarked an excellent website then forgot about it. I was idly scanning my bookmarks and came across it again. It's a cornucopia of excellent information on all sorts, written and maintained by a bloke who was in the motorcycle trade in the USA for many years. You (and I) may not agree with everything he says but it's all well reasoned stuff. His carburettor articles in particular are excellent and his short article re Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is a gem.
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/index.html#100...
19/08/2025 09:56:53 UTC
Ian Soady¹ said :-
ZAMM link:
https://www.motorcycleproject.com/text/pirsig.html...
19/08/2025 09:57:27 UTC
Upt'North ¹ said :-
Nice link Ian.
19/08/2025 10:59:37 UTC
nab301 said :-
Ian , thanks for that link , there's a winters worth of reading there!
Nigel
20/08/2025 15:09:23 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
Yeah there's a lot of reading there and from a cursory look it's pretty interesting. Good find Ian.
22/08/2025 08:06:39 UTC
Glyn said :-
Finally, I’ve got the TZR running like a dream. I’ve had the thing cutting out on acceleration and running very rough at anything over tick over. The eventual reason was due to incorrect information. I had read on the pages of the TZR forums that the float heights quoted in the manual were for the UK 2MA version whilst the imports had a different shaped float and should be set 7mm higher. So that’s what I did. Whilst having the carbs off for the third time I noticed that the floats looked exactly the same as the photos in my manual and were in fact round and not rectangular at all. So I set them as the manual described and cured the issue. What was happening was that the level of fuel in the bowls was too low and the pilot jets were probably not able to suck fuel as they were above the fuel surface. Beware of well meaning advice is probably the moral of this tale.
22/08/2025 22:20:24 UTC
Ian Soady¹ said :-
forums, don't you love 'em!
23/08/2025 16:58:05 UTC
Glyn said :-
I’ve had some really useful advice from forums in the past but there’s no filter so all sorts of inaccurate information can get on there from people who think they’re helping. Ren will hate me for saying so but the TZR is a revelation. The performance from a 250 is astonishing. Yes it does the “ring a ding ding” thing on tickover but when you hit 6k+ and the power valves open it sounds just brilliant. It’s hard to believe it’s 40 years old. Where’s 40 years of progress when the TZR outputs the same bhp as my 600cc bike? Also, I’ve properly set up the Autolube pump and there’s very little smoke emissions now. Come on Ed it’s worth a lot more than 2 out of 10.
23/08/2025 19:08:31 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
According to my quick Google search the TZR 250 outputs as much as 56hp. That's 9 more than my 500 for half the capacity. Considerably lighter too.
However. Will the TZR 250 return 80mpg if ridden sensibly? Will the TZR motor achieve 60, 80, even 100 thousand miles before requiring a rebuild?
2 out of 10? I'm not that generous...
23/08/2025 20:03:32 UTC
Upt'North ¹ said :-
Will the TZR return 80 mpg? Who gives a toss. It's as light as a feather, it's got 56 horses and belches blue smoke whilst elevating it's front wheel with aplomb in the first three gears.
10 out of 10 from me.
If you couldn't enjoy imitating Kenny Roberts exiting a bend with the front wheel lifting.....them I'm sorry.....you're not a motorcyclist. But you're probably still a biker, which is a completely different thing.
Well done with the fix Glyn.
Upt.
24/08/2025 09:52:09 UTC
Ian Soady¹ said :-
I think you've got those the wrong way round Upt' Lifting the front wheel is a biker thing. We motorcyclists are a more sedate bunch.
Which is not to say some of us don't enjoy a zesty 2 stroke - a pleasure which Ren denies himself. I wouldn't mind a shot on the TZR if I could get my leg over it.
24/08/2025 15:03:59 UTC
nab301 said :-
Ian , I thought you didn't like 2 strokes or was that just the Francis Barnett, and come to think of it didn't you Triumph a Greeves too ? Heresy I say!
Nigel
25/08/2025 16:03:30 UTC
Ian Soady¹ said :-
It was just the Fanny-B, but I have to say I'm not a fan of Villiers in general, although the twins were quite nice. I did rebuild an Ariel Arrow a few years back and it was quite a nice bike.
For some reason I've never tried one of the 70s high performance 2 strokes but would quite fancy a go on one, although I'm probably too heavy these days!
The Arrow:
25/08/2025 16:46:39 UTC
Glyn said :-
From memory and experience the villiers engined bikes were fairly poor, James, Dot, FB., etc. The bigger twin 250’s were ok in the Greeves, especially the motocross bikes. In its day, the Aerials (Arrow and Leader) were a bit of exciting engineering and went ok. I liked them but the styling was love it or hate it. However the Japanese we’re coming and really tore the industry apart with far superior machines. Generally they were low capacity but when the likes of the multi cylinder bigger engines such as the GT380, 550 and 750’s arrived that was a real eye opener. The TZR is brilliant and I weigh in at 74kilos these days but the 17 year olds in the 70’s were probably nearer to 65 kilos.
25/08/2025 17:36:26 UTC
Glyn said :-
There’s a pretty big Biker night a few miles from where I live, so I thought I’d take the TZR out for a run and a look around. There was a huge turn out so imagine my thrill when my little 2 stroke won bike of the night. Even more so because I didn’t even know they ran a competition. No cash prize but a rather nice T shirt was the prize.
26/08/2025 20:02:29 UTC
Upt'North ¹ said :-
Credit where credit is due.
Well done fella.
26/08/2025 22:59:22 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
There's no doubt at all you've done an excellent job Glyn. But - could you just not see your way to putting a proper engine in it?
28/08/2025 07:56:39 UTC
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