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Brief Ride On A Honda Innova 125 - By Ren Withnell

I've been looking at purchasing one of these simply for its splendid fuel economy.  I found a second hand one, 2 years old with 2000 miles on the clock for £895.  I asked the shopkeeper for a test ride.  Since I had to leave my NTV 600 there he seemed sure I would return with the bike, so off I went for a 4-mile ride.

The very first thing is the gearbox is semi automatic and "upside-down" from normal motorcycles.  Sitting on the machine it felt very small and very light, which is to be expected.  Press down on the gearshift and a slight "clunk" emits from the engine as the gears engage.  A slight twist on the throttle and away we go.  Just riding off the car park the motorcycle is very light and surprisingly twitchy after being on a heavy machine.  It is like getting back onto a pushbike.  

Pulling away onto the main road I twist the throttle and the response is very impressive!  2nd gear is fiddly, not due to the motorcycle, due to my having to remember to press down on the gearshift, not up.  A click later I am up to 30mph, very quickly.  Changing down is very clunky and jerky, again I will not blame the machine, it is my lack of experience with the semi automatic gearbox.  

Acceleration.  Getting up to 30 and 40 mph is very easy and surprisingly fast.  Around town I would be able to leave most cars behind at the traffic lights and shock a few motorcycles too.  Beyond 40 mph acceleration slows.  On the only 60 mph stretch of road I covered it took ages to get to 55 mph then I ran out of road.  Other owners inform me it should reach 70 mph and cruise at 60 mph.  It did not quite feel up to those speeds to me, but I should imagine cruising on motorways behind lorries at 55 to 60 mph would not be a problem.  

The handling was a shock, not to the good.  I am used to a big heavy 600 with wider tyres.  The Innova has skinny tyres and only weighs something like 99kg.  As such it feels sharp and wobbly, like a pushbike.  Again it is unfair to try and compare the machines back to back.  I think the handling would be fine if I adjusted my riding accordingly.  It does not help when my test machine had a slightly flat rear tyre.  

The gearbox is very confusing after riding my normal motorcycle.  I'm sure it would be fine if I had the chance to get used to it.

The build quality leaves a lot to be desired on the Innova.  I have viewed 2 bikes, both about 2 years old, both very low mileage and both were rusting badly.  With an initial purchase price of £1700 this machine is obviously built to a price, and it shows as it ages.  I think if I could catch it early enough a good coating of grease, oil and WD40 would be the best solution.  The motor is a bored out and updated version of the C90 engine that was renowned for its reliability.  I can only hope Honda has not cut corners on the motor.

Fuel economy should be excellent.  Honda reports in excess of 200 mpg at a constant 33 mph.  Not a very real figure, most users report between 110 and 150 mpg under a more normal usage. In this day of rising fuel costs this is the sole reason I am tempted to buy one.  I would cut my fuel bills in more than half.

The Honda ANF 125 Innova is very obviously aimed at commuters travelling mostly in town.  Once you get used to the gears and the handling, I should think it would be more than perfect.  I would use mine for much further trips.  It is not suited to this, not like my 600cc shaft driven v twin.  But there in lies the challenge.  Anyone for a trip to Faro, on an Innova?

A bright red honda anf 125 innova with a sidecar attached
A very strange Innove sidecar outfit. Bet there's not many of these around!

Reader's Comments

Bill said :-
I have been riding motorcycles since 1963 and have owned a fair number of bikes from 32cc!! to 800cc. My current bike is a 2006 Innova which I think is the about best bike in the world! Why you might ask? Its light so you dont get a hernia trying to move it. It has a central stand AND a prop stand. It has tyre's with inner tubes so YOU and not a garage can fix punctures. It has proper mudguards (unlike that bike on the home page) so all the crap off the roads does not go over YOU or the engine!!!It has a enclosed chain. and one can check and set the tappets which cuts out local bike shops and the losers who work there. Naturely if you insist going fast the petrol tank capacity is small but then you dont have to worry about speed cameras or traffic cops! Unlike a big bike one can sit on the seat with both feet on the ground....great in snow and no hand clutch means great control in icy conditions (as you can see I am not a 'fair weather biker') The Honda 90 was a great bike and the Innova is a improved version of this. Big bikes and speed is all very well (I have been there!) But when touring whats the point when you are travelling SO fast you cannot see the country your touring through??! Buy a Innova and enjoy a motorcycle like it should be driven.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Potty said :-
Great bike! What more can I say. It's ideally suited for the city. Cheap to maintain and it's beautiful too:)
I bought windshield which is mandatory for the cold days.
The fuel economy is 2,5L for 100km(city driving).
The free space under the seat is useful for putting my security chain and gloves . The small fuel tank is somewhat inconvenient.
I made one longer trip(200km) and realized that the seat is not so comfortable. Tried different seating positions and with both legs on the left side of the bike seems to be working.
Now I will just buy a blanket because the legs are not protected from the wind at all and when the temperature is under 5C it's quite chilly.
Front light is useful and the turn signals are very bright, which is nice. Bike is doing 90km/h with no problems and when out of town my cruising speed is around 75-80km/h.
There are some stupid rattling noises from the plastics where the headlight is located. But with some rubber in the joints all will go away I guess.
And last words for the breaks - they are pretty good.
If you are thinking of buying an Innova go ahead you won't regret it.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Nod said :-
With regard to jerky gearchanges on mopeds:
On mopeds I've rented here in Thailand this annoyed me, especially when trying to drive smoothly with a pillion. But there's a knack! There is in fact a clutch on these things just it's operated by the gear pedal. After you click a change the return movement of the pedal eases the clutch into drive as it springs back to the rest position.
Bang the pedal and let it flick back and it will jerk the drive. Bang the pedal but then ease it gently back with your foot, balancing with throttle as normal, and she'll pick up the reins with some manners.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Nod said :-
I've just bought a Thai built version of the Innova called a Honda Nice. Same engine. Very little bodywork to rattle, no fairing etc. Has proper forks and all the mods to raise the suspension, add knobblies, motorcross bars etc are available for peanuts from the guys who set them up for the motorcross-track conditions found on many Thai islands. I'm hoping like hell to be able to ride it back to the UK using less fuel than the equivalent air flight. Paperwork's tricky, though. Lovely little bike but I'd agree about the seat. Did 200km to Kanchanaburi on my old one and needed to stretch a lot. My old nice, a 110, did 104mpg.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
John said :-
I brought my Honda Innova one year ago, and having not been on two wheels for over ten years, find it a superb little bike, and a great development on my 1979 C70 which is still in my garage. I did intend to use it in all weathers, but it is far too nice to be abused, and use it mainly for work when conditions permit.
Only negative view is the small fuel tank, which is only a minor issue for me.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
keith said :-
Ive had my Innova now justover two years from new.Like most people I wanted an updated cub which I have had many.The Innova is basically a great bike for commuting but there are a few problems I have encountered. The genuine Honda screen develops stress cracks almost immediately,this is not due to bad fitting because my friends did the same and I believe Honda have now withdrawn them. Also the gear indicator sender unit gets covered in slime and eventually gives up the ghost..not a problem as such but annoying when the gear display does not light. Also my electric start has packed up..perhaps its just bad luck? Dont let me put you off because its still a great cheap mode of transport and so far the engine is 100% reliable
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Alan said :-
I ride this bike on deliveries. Tiny tank the worst thing about this machine. However ours get treatedshockingly and still work. Average.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Andy P said :-
I bought my innova new just over a year ago to replace my 20 year old 90 cub. This machine is far better. Iam getting around 90 miles to the tank and seeing 60 to 65 mph. Went on a round trip of 370 miles a few weeks ago (Mad you may say well hey its a honda) without a murmour. As other comments the seat is hard but you can live with it. All I do is change the oil. The one other thing I tend do regularly is empty the little transparent rubber water trap an the front of the air filter as it does seem to accumulate water very quickly.I gave up on my local honda dealer for servicing. I normally give it a once over in an hour or two. Its a brilliant little machine.(Hopefully another 20 yearer).
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
paulo said :-
as stated before the 125 innova is a updated version of the c90. i owned a c90 before i purchased a innova, the innova handles a lot better then the c90 with better breaks and suspension and a extra gear to get up 60/70 mph. the only real fault i can find with the innova is after you have been riding for 5 hours the seat is realy uncomfortable and i am having a cross gel pad put in the front part of the seat on mine hopfully this will aleviate the problem. as for reliability it is just as good as the c90, i have done 3x200 miles plus trips on the bike with no problems.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Will Shaw said :-
Thankyou for a very informative review! I am hoping to buy an innova....would you recommend one new or secondhand?
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
steve jones said :-
hi evry 1 iv just bought a 2005 honda innova 125 iv heard thay r good bikes, can eny1 tell wot thay r like
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
dan said :-
i drive a innova evey day and the restricted ones are very slow they will only do 55mph and it takes a long time to get there but if you get it deristed it will do 70mph and down a very steep hill 80mph it still takes time to get to 70 but mot to long
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Malcolm said :-
Many thanks for the very helpful review and everyone's comments. My trusty BMW R80RT is becoming a little too heavy to manouver when out of the saddle (rhumatism and advancing years!)and I am considering a small runabout for local trips with low running costs. Saw an ad in MCN for a Chinese Znen 125cc scooter offering 100mpg at £1100 new but worry about the quality & spares. Ran Vespa's over 30 years ago but fancy a newer design. Suzuki do a similar one to the Innover I'm told (but better according to the local dealer I just spoke to)which I will look at.
Nearest Innova stockist to east lancs is some distance away to view/test but am now encouraged to buy one -new -if my bid for a 2006 one on e-bay is not successful.

01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Tom said :-
I've owned an 04 reg Innova for just over a year now. Many good points - light, reliable, easiet kick-start ever, very able solo in town and on open roads.
Down side? Minimal luggage capacity, stupidly tiny fuel tank and performance killed stone dead when two-up.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Chris said :-
I had a C70 in 1979. I have progressed through big BMWs and now have a ST1100.

I bought the Innova last week and have already put on 500 miles. The bike is great, although as others have said, the fuel tank is small but then, every time I fill up I smile at the money I'm saving!

Where can I get a workshop manual? Can the rear suspension be adjusted? If so, how?
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Bill said :-
Hello, A few more comments to my comment....the first one at the top! The seat is very hard after 20 miles for me on my left hip though this proberly because I landed there after a bad crash in 1975 when some berk knocked me off my Yamaha! I never have problems with the small tank then again my usual speed is 33 mph! Strangly enough the engine fairing cracked across the area from the right side 'window/port/inspection hole' to the side after being replaced after I did the 5000 mile service. You can use the Haynes workshop manual for the Innova. My last 'ride to work bike' was a Honda 90, the two bikes are more or less the same! There is a company down in Aston, Birmingham that recovers motorcycle seats. May take seat there as existing one is like its stuffed with railway sleepers!!!
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Bogger said :-
I've got a C90 12v and an earlier 2T Yamaha V90. I've recently bought an 03 Reg Innova second hand to keep them company . What a fantastic machine. Cruises at 60mph without effort does 101 mls+ before it needs refuelling. It handles really well, with good brakes, The engines dead smooth, as is the gearchange. All in all I'm well impressed. If you're thinking of buying one,think no longer, just buy one. You will not regret it.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Luke, Brighton said :-
I've had one for a while now and I do a 40 mile trip 4 times a week and thrash around town, 2 up on the weekends. It's so manageable and cheap compared to other larger bikes I've had. The engine feels just like a bored out C90 with an extra gear for cruising 'cause you can never get it to full revs in top anyway.

Also, I'm 13 stone and took it through Normandy, riding all day for a few days and it loved it. The power is delivered so smoothly or is it just that there isn't any? Anyway it has been completely reliable so far.

Servicing may be slightly higher then the cub 'cause I had the back tyre wear out once and that never happened on a cub! I've taken 2 links out the chain and apparently it takes oil as well!

All in all, if you have to travle at under 70 and would like 100+ to the gallon then wear an anorak. No one will ever know it's you!

01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
RP said :-
Great bike. I have just returned from a 1,983 mile round trip from Gloucestershire to Spain. Bike behaved faultlessly and averaged about 180mpg even laden with my camping kit strapped on the back.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
konka said :-
velly good reporte
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
emma d,21, Enfield said :-
I have one (doing the London Knowledge on it)- and love it !

I started off with a 1996 C90 and so I was used to the the gear shift - a nice natural progression ! Yes, it is a definite move upwards, but I'm not sure it's a classic !

The ride is good (up to 50mph) and then it's a bit of a sailing dingy - tacking isn't my thing on the 'West Cross Route'. Yer, but no, but that shouldn't put anyone off of this urban machine. The innova is a lovely little bike - and probably the best London Commuter bike - Although I wouldn't mind a SH125 !

01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Wayne of Cheshunt said :-
Emma d; your review made me laugh... you'll make a great 'cabbie'!

Anyhow, I did the same thing (C90 to Innova) on da Knowledge. The major advantage the Innova had was it's acceleration (keeping pace with traffic). I reckon Honda could have found away of fitting a bigger tank - a bit of a bind, as stopping for fuel is a pet hate !

All in all a great city bike, and one I would recommend to Knowledge Boys.

Ps. Emma d - Henry's Place, Garrett Lane, Earlswood does a lovely cup of tea !
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Brian said :-
Is there an oil filter on Innova? My mate has one and just can't find a filter,,,,,
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Tony said :-
MY ANF is a 2007. Im using it for the knowledge and it is currently on 35000 miles and still going. Its a little tatty but has not let me down apart from the dreaded punctures with the tubes...
Great little bike which does 65 mph at a stretch but its not enjoyable like that.
50-55 is alot more pleasant..
Great on petrol and £15 road tax for 1 year a bargain.

01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
john r said :-
enine is not a bored and updated c90. its a ompletely new unit that shares little with the earlier step thrus.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Bill said :-
Hello, I went on the bus (national free bus pass!) to Birmingham to go to Leightons in Aston who recovered my year 2000 Royal Enfield 350cc pan saddle for me. This time it was the iron hard Innova seat's turn! They did a good job though the seat feels slightly higher. (not much) Now I can ride for ages without my hips paining me (1975 bike accident) and now the bike is even more better! Was looking on internet for that wire basket one see's on Far Eastern Innovas but nothing in England. One supplier in Far East BUT dodgy feelings as card fraud comes to mind!
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Bill (again!) said :-
I think some of you are having us on! Some of the speeds quoted here are a joke. I recently went down Rose Hill by the Lickey Hills in South Birmingham. This is a old Roman road and was used by the near-by Austin works to test the cars on. It was trying to rain so I wanted to get home QUICK! I did prolonged 40 mph and that was the fastest I could GO! 85 mph indeed! Come onnnn...(the bike at 40 mph was as smooth as a LE Velocette!)
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Neil said :-
Ahhhh Bill, all the posts were going so well until your last comment about only getting 40mph, - are you a big chap ? This can't be right.
I started off with a Vespa 'Sportique, Yamaha DT175, Honda CB400/4, then hit hard times with a C50, 4 different C90's and currently a C90 electric start.
I've done 50,200 miles, but it has a patent rear wheel, and the metal lining of the brake drum is soft and after fitting new shoes I only have a few millimetres adjustment.
I cannot get another patent any more except a crap Chinese job and a genuine Honda rear is £400+, SO I AM EYEING UP THE NEW INNOVA. A comment about rust put me off, but it is the seat which worries me the most as I do long trips of 35 miles each way almost daily and I don't like a sore bum.
How do you put in bigger padding whilst retaining the same seat cover ?
Honda windscreen cracking worries me (was the replacement OK ?) as does the engine fairing splitting, but no one has mentioned a top box being fitted behind the seat, can this be done as I bring back my weeks shopping in it and carry a large tool kit, plus waterproofs.
On my current C90MT I change the engine oil every 1,000miles without fail because I've ruined the previous 3 with the main bearings giving up each time because I'm told I don't allow the engine to cool down/not stopping on long journeys of 150 miles or more, but I do stop for half hour now every 35 miles.
Should I persevere with a replacement rear wheel or get a new Innova ?
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Neil said :-
By the way, it was the housing that the main bearing fits into on the left hand crank case which wore out, not the bearings itself and the shop said you cannot fit a sleeve or liner nor was it possible to insert anything to stop the whole bearing itself from turning round in the housing.

I also bought a Chinese made patent con rod with big end bearings for my old C90E - after 90 miles the big end failed ! (and the fastest I went was 40 mph)
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Bill (even more!) said :-
Hello Neil, I have a top box fitted from new and its most usefull. The cracked right engine fairing is still cracked but my local bike shop who does my MOT says the crack wont interfer with the passing of eeerrr...the MOT! While currently (July 2010) doing the 7000 service I notice other cracked bits! Maybe the 2006 plastic was a bit dodgy?? Take a look at the HONDA 90 message board/forum, most usefull and nice fellers.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Bill (sob!) said :-
Neil, Oh yes...the seat! Leightons put a new cover on so no 'HONDA' on seat back....the seat is now comfortable for longer but maybe a gel cushion may be a additional purchase. But I still have to stop after around 20 miles (at 33mph) as my legs start acheing, anyway a little walk keeps you alert! I go slow by choice. some person claimed 80 mph off a Innova!? No way to trat a bike....
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
chippy said :-
Hi Came across your site while looking around for some advice re starting problem on my 2006 anf, noticed only one ref to my grief but enjoyed the posts it seems to have Agood reputation with quite serious bike fans as well as the strictly when I have to user like me, great bike though, just one thing how the hell do you get the thing to do 65 and if its true what do you need to be on to have the balls to be onit at the time.? once again great site.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Bill... said :-
O.K. I admit to being a 'bumbler' and usually, stick to 33 mph AND have a blob of paint on the speedo at 30 mph. The rust and splitting covers? Just slather on grease on the rust prone parts. The covers can be repaired with home made bits a nuts and bolts! Just found a marvelous site for proper Honda parts....Lings Honda. Exploded parts diagrams, etc. The speed 'claims' here and elsewhere I wont comment on (snigger!) but if you want to go fast buy a Honda Fireblade!! Why bugger up a pal just to go FAST? The bike is not for that market....well, its your money...your choice!
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Neil (Suffolk) said :-
Thanks all to replies to my previous posts.
Well I took the plunge and got myself a new Innova, besides, having had so many C90's I was getting chock-a-block with spares.

First impressions are the handling is much more responsive with just the slight unintentional twist of the throttle when using the front brake enough to make me slightly nervous, but you quickly get the hang of it.
I also found I had accelerated up to 40mph when I thought I was legally doing 30mph (great acceleration) !

Worries about the seat proved to be unfounded, it's harder but not really an issue.
What is an issue is the smaller fuel capacity compared to my C90, combined with an electronic fuel gauge which I find a problem to calculate. To make matters worse, if you use the side stand, when you next turn on the engine you appear to have lost a segment on the display, making me panic at first as I had no idea if I had enough in the tank to get to the next station, but after a few miles the display settled down, but for me, it's a real nuisance not being able to know how much further you dare go before finding a station.

This leads me to filling up when half empty to be safe, but on pumps it say's 'minimum 2 litres' and I can't get 2 litres in !
I've never been told off though.

Biggest concern is engine 'growling' under acceleration in third and forth gears. This may be a characteristic of the bike, but it sounds like engine knocking to me (but obviously it can't be) so I will be taking it back to dealer today for reassurance.

I have 750 miles on the clock, but soon I want to take it on a long journey and nobody can tell me when I should stop to let the engine/oil cool down. I wrecked previous C90's because of the small amount of oil capacity making the oil like water on long journeys causing the main bearings to wear out the recess in the left crankcase half so that the bearing itself was revolving in the housing, leading to crankshaft rattle (well, that's what my local dealer told me anyway)

Perhaps, that's the reason Honda has given the Innova a small tank, so that the bike cools down during petrol fill ups, if people wrongly use it for touring ?

I read somewhere of obtaining greater speeds if following a lorry, WELL DON'T, not only is it stupid, but it's annoying to the lorry driver and could even tempt him to 'dab' his brakes at speed to put the shites up you and serves you right.

Dan reckons a 'de-restricted' bike will do 70 mph and 80 mph down a steep hill, don't believe you ! After doing 600 miles I thought I'd see how fast it would go on a long straight with little wind ....... 65 mph was what I achieved, 80 mph yes, if thrown off a cliff.

RP mentions a trip to Spain and averaging 180 mpg with his camping gear even strapped to his back, he forgot to mention the caravan he was towing ....... sorry Dan, I find 180 mpg too improbable.

I've spotted some really rusty Innova's, but who wants to put WD40 or grease even on a nice new, shiny bike ?
I definitely will in winter when salt is put down, but there is so much plastic panelling I'm slightly worried of WD40 spray drift weakening these panels.

A lot of negatives in this post, sorry about that, so quickly summing up: GO AHEAD AND BUY ONE NOW WHILE THEY ARE STILL IN STOCK. (coz I'm a happy bunny now I have one)

01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
andrew french said :-
i have owned honda 90's for nearly 30 years and bought an innova 3 years ago.
i think the handling is fantastic when dunlop tyres are fitted and inflated to maximum psi.
i have never got more than 150 mpg.
i have no problem with build quality mine is now 7 years old with the exhaust just starting to rot, everything else is fine.
the longest run i have done is to norway to the krystal rally.
my only complaint is the small fuel tank just over 3 ltrs which gives a range of approx 80 miles.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Bill, John, Hu-you name it said :-
Best regards from Germany

01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Henry Nottage said :-
I am leading a team of three riders on Innovas, in a Paris-Dakar style desert rally. It sounds like a ridiculous idea, and it is - but we are all pizza deliverers and the opportunity to go desert racing is limited on our wage!! We are raising money for Practical Action. Any advice about Innovas would be appreciated, our web address is www.bamakoorbust.org.uk


Half Baked Henry
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Malcolm said :-
Following on from my initial comment 2 1/2 years ago, just to say I eventually bought an Innovs 125 to complement my BMW R80RT and have been very, very pleased with it. It has a 55 plate and looking at e-bay prices, I could probably get back what I paid for it which is pleasing.
In that time, all it has required is a new (pattern) exhaust and rear tyre and has been ultra-reliable.
Performance-wise, commuting to Preston and Skipton from my Nelson, Lancs home I have managed 142 mpg with careful throttle control (115 mpg ridden flat out / 130 mpg average)and up to 70 mpg (just!)slightly downhill although I would not recommend it in the skinny tyres.
Most of the time it is car traffic that is holding ME up on the A roads as I try to average 55-60 mph (Bill's must have a problem if it is struggling at 40 mph.)
Yes, some cars can dismiss my moped-like profile as they shoot past but I wear a big smile as I (usually)catch and pass them at the next juction/traffic lights/rounderbout/traffic queue as I sneak through to the front and disapear into the distance. That and the thought of me getting around 3 times the mpg that they are.
It is a bit of a hard, shaky ride compared to my bigger bike (or my past side-valve Velocette LE)and cannot be pulled out of a lean on sweeping bends the same due to low power but ridden sensibly, it performs its intended use well and is great fun. My brother, who recommended one to me, has just ordered a new one, now fuel injected, himself.
One last point regarding the cracking of the original Honda screens - mentioned in the google intro but not in the body of the article. I am lucky to have one on mine (no longer available?) and it did have numerous cracks eminating from around the upper stay holes.
I remembered a trick from my engineering training days to stop such cracks worsening by drilling a small hole at the end to terminate the stresses. Since adding those 1.5mm holes then, the cracks have not extended.
One last warning. Do keep a close eye on engine oil level. This is not very clear on the plastic dipstick (this is poor and would be much better in steel)and I nearly ran mine dry! I read one account of a new owner who had done just that, needing an engine rebuild (all bearings) costing around £500 I think. Ouch!
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Malcolm said :-
A correction, I meant `up to 70 mph' of course. On the issue of corrosion, it spent its first winter outside under a motorcycle cover and I became rather alarmed at the deterioration starting on chrome and alloy parts. It would have been worse had I not lightly coated all chrome parts with grease - wiped off in spring. After catching this before it became too bad, I decided to winter it last time in my outside cabin office (a tight squeeze but easy with such a light, small machine)which was well worth the trouble - it came out as it went in.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Bill. said :-
I see the heading picture has changed on this item. I want to point out to 'Malcolm' that I choose to travel under 40 mph by choice! Just like Honda I find I am doing 33 mph without knowing it...a nice SAFE speed. If I want speed I would buy a Fireblade...I wonder why people have a fixtation about speed? I often have a laugh at the top speeds mentioned here. As far as rust and poor condition are concerned if you buy a Innova and treat it like dirt it will soon look like eeerrrrr.....dirt! After spending over £1000 on a motorcycle its common sense to treat your purchase properly.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Greg said :-
Can anyone tell me how to check the oil level on my 2010 innova and what mark do I check it against on the dipstick.
No owners manual.

Many thanks
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Peter Hawker said :-
Don't know when you posted your review Ren, but I'll take you up on that trip to Faro!
. . . 2012.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
jon said :-
Hi all, ive just taken delivery of my new 'Blue' Honda innova last Thursday. Because of the great british weather! i have only managed 20 odd miles so far. After browsing the internet & searching the secondhand market for weeks, i came to realize these little machines are becoming harder to source (on the cheap) hence the reason me buying new@ only £1,900,& 5mls on the clock. This is my second innova, my first was a 2006 which i sadly sold on in 2008,but having missed the bike, i just had to buy another & get rid of my Suzuki Burgman 400... small wheels & all! These little bikes are excellent value for money, cheap as chips to run, & the average cost of maintenance is miserly compared to many other little machines.. plus 100% reliable. I believe the bike was updated in 2008 & fitted with EFI to replace carburetor model, yet another plus! The headlight looks to be re-designed too, my older model use to vibrate as the revs dropped, NO problems with this now on my new one. For those of you who have mentioned the small tank size, i am intending to purchase 1/2 Ltr fuel bottles, these can be obtained at camping stores/internet etc at about £10-£15, they are quite safe to carry fuel in, i would also recommend the 35Ltr top box on the back, very handy! a few bungee straps, then you can almost carry anything...! Another thing im going to fit is a windscreen, as far as ive found out, Honda withdrew their own because of faults in manufacture, i believe they were breaking up for some strange reason, if you want one you can buy a good quality 'Puig' screen, as far as i know these can only be sourced from a company based in Germany, advertised also on e bay.

Thanks folks, thats all for now.
Happy riding... stay safe!
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Mike said :-
I bought a new Innova in 2008 and now (Dec '11) have done just under 3000miles. Seat is painful and I must do something about that. Petrol tank capacity is a joke even though I use bike locally most of the time. Easy to keep clean (other than the cheaply chomed wheels & spokes) My Honda screen disintegrated: cheap far eastern replacement one from Ebay still OK! Maximum indicated speed 63mph and engine feels rough at that speed anyway. Just bought handlebar muffs and an electronic buzzer to remind me to turn-off indicators. Bike has character and feels quite secure on bends. (I formerly owned a Yam TDM850) Recommend buying one of these light motorcycles (can't call it a Scooter can you).
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Fraser Gray said :-
Mine is now 7 years old with 21000 on the clock.Owned from new.Sad to say,agree with person who suspected cheap Chinese components as I suspect the big end is now on it's way out,-poor starting,smoky exhaust,power loss etc etc.I have been changing the oil at very short intervals from new,every 600 miles or so,and it's made no difference.Fuel economy's been amazing,but I don't know if I'll now keep the bike and tear down the engine. It's said that 20000 miles is about the average life span for a little 125 engine,so maybe I expect too much.(Would love to take one to Dakar though!0
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Rob. said :-
Been riding bikes over 45 years now, and all sorts from a Ariel 3 to yam 1000cc, had a few honda 50s 70s and 90s, 12 months ago i got me a honda innova 05 model did 4000miles in that time and it never missed a beat, fantastic machine penny's to run it, i have just got a 08 model fuel injection i dont need speed anymore but love the economy also cheap to insure, i love touring france only been on bigger bikes but now looking to go on this scoot why not it sits happy at 55mph have added a puig screen rear rack and 35lt top box, if your thinking of getting a innova do it its a great little bike. Rob.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Fraser Gray said :-
An update on the poor engine performance- nothing more wrong with it than a manky air filter,and a crankcase breather full of grot.Cleaned it out,changed the filter,and it's like a new bike.So,I withdraw my caustic comments about cheap engine parts,sorry Honda.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
RP said :-
@ Neil ,I didn't work out the mpg of complete journey from Gloucestershire to Cadaques and back , but the one time I did as I was curious at mpg with about 10kg in a 50 litre rucksack strapped to the back (bit of a pain unstrapping it everytime I refuelled), it was 180 mpg .Of course there is a little leeway for inaccuracy as you assume you are refilling to exactly the same level. I also admit to being a bumbler and a lot of the time was doing just 25 to 35 mph looking at the scenery on beautiful French D roads . I check the mpg every so often , I tend to get around 150 to 160 mpg around Gloucetershire where I am cruising at faster speeds 40 to 50 mph . Best recorded mpg I have had was not on my bike but on a rented Honda Wave (same as Innova ) in Thailand - 193mpg but that was riding around 20 to 30 mph ,thats as fast you can go avoiding potholes elephant dung etc! By the way the Honda spares cost peanuts in Thailand , I filled a suitcase up with spare parts when I returned ,including 2 Dunlop spare tyres at a fraction of the UK price . Also bought 2 luggage carriers that aren't on sale at Honda UK dealers . One a basket that fits on the front and another that fits in the step-thru area. In Thailand the bike is available in 100cc, 110cc, and 125cc options . I have done 13000 miles on my Innova now , changed one back tyre , air filter , spark plug and only problem I had was needed to change the chain which I think I had over-tightened .The one maintenence job I'm concerned about is the valve clearances , I had a go at checking , very fiddly , think it was ok but not certain.

01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
RP said :-
oh Neil , yes I would say 70 to 80 mph is just about impossible on an Innova ,unless maybe downhill with a following wind . But it is possible , not that I would want to do it , if you change the front sprocket to a higher ratio sprocket. Boy racers in some countries like to do this . The sprocket is not on sale from Honda dealers UK but is available in Thailand for about £3 .Its not 'de-restricting' the bike but modifying it .
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Mike said :-
Still using my '08 Innova for shortish journeys, but last week June 2012 I did a return ride to local coast - approx 95 miles. To my amazement as engine temperature rose. so did performance and I easily maintained indicated 68mph on dual carriageways/motorways, and I'm 15 stone. I think must have blown cobwebs out of fuel system. Handles well on bends & corners. Still hate hard seat!!
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Pete M said :-
An absolutely fascinating website. I have been hoping to find something devoted to these remarkable machines. I have been riding bikes almost every day since 1957/58. As a callow youth I sold my share in a Tiger Moth and bought a Lambretta scooter on which I toured a large part of Europe. That caused less arguments with the parents than flying from farmer's fields and disused airfields. I progressed into an Isetta bubble car and other cars but always preferred bikes. I bought my first Honda, a C50 Cub secondhand while working in Cyprus. It had not been well looked after and I stripped it down and rebuilt it. It conveyed my wife and I over a large part of Cyprus for a couple of years until the big end expired. The dealer offered me a good price on a C90 and I rode that for about another year. When we returned to the UK a bout of nostalgia caused me to buy another Lambretta for old times sake. Three weeks of instability and swerves in side winds scared me to death and I sold it in three weeks. It was then back to a series of C90s for the next 15 years.

I moved to Kent and, leaving the car in the garage most of the time, I bought a Honda CB200 in Sandwich. It was not a great bike but got me around on some quite long journeys in the UK. I next was lucky enough to find a CB250N Honda Superdream in almost showroom condition in 1985. It was a good solid bike and I rode it almost every day for 24 years. It hardly ever let me down but the passage of time began to take its toll. I could not keep up with the corrosion and finally decided to buy an Innova in 2009. It has now done about 3500 miles and is a delightful machine. I believe that Honda have manufactured over 60 million "step-through" bikes so I think that they are getting something right. I can hardly think of a more perfect urban transport -light, easy to park and astonishingly economical. At about 1000 miles I did a "brim-to-brim" consumption check after a mixture of riding. It worked out at 151mpg! I cannot understand why, at a time of concern over fuel prices, Honda does not market these bikes more aggressively. They are hugely popular in some other countries. Thousands of them in Crete for instance.

I ride my Innova all year round, except when snow and ice are around. I was recommended to use a winter spray, FS365, to cut down corrosion from salt. It is curious stuff but does seem to do the job to some degree. The spokes I smear with Vaseline for the winter. The poor plating on the spokes is a disappointment. I got a medium size top box fitted and that holds a surprising amount of shopping. I leave most of the maintenance to the dealer or bike shop but I do lubricate and adjust the chain regularly and I like to change the oil every 500 or 600 miles as I am doing so many short runs. Unlike the old Cubs it is a fiddly task to remove some of the panels --- another reason to leave it to the mechanics. The small fuel tank is not a great problem. I fill mine from a can which I keep to fill the lawn mower. If I need to go on a longer journey I have found that a sturdy plastic 2 litre container will fit under the seat. Another tip. Buy a permanent wiring harness to attach to the battery. It can then be connected easily to a trickle charger once a week for a few hours.

I hope that you all have as much fun as me riding your Innovas every day!

Good luck

Pete M

P.S. Does anyone know whether the alloy wheels on the new "Wave" machines would fit an Innova?
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
tamir said :-
H? and cheers everyone
Beauty posts I really enjoyed reading.
Innova is so brilliant and here is my share:
Seating comfort is far beyond the thickness and width of the seat cushion. Innova sitting position similar to motorcycles, well, Innova is a motorcycle, the distance from chair and the handlebars allow for the most comfortable ergonomic position.

About rust. I live in Tel Aviv, Israel, has much moisture. Despite conditions not much rust. Not significant, I take care of it with grease, WD-40, and the bike after two years, exposed to the Mediterranean sun still looks like new.

I love to travel, the longest trip was a distance of 450 km, comfortable, fun, great riding experience.
I found a way to effectively tie five days of camping equipment.
I have a blog on the Innova. who is interested in Do-It-Yourself will interest in MY YouTube Channel.

Continue sharing pleasant, I read and learn and it's great
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Jeff said :-
Hi there fellow innovettes.

Just thought I would share my data and experience with the Innova, I have a 2003 model without fuel injection.

I was concerned before getting one of these as I am 6ft 5" and weigh over 18 stone. The stats definately suffer for this, but on my trip to work (75 miles round trip) it does 113 mpg riding it flat out most of the time. Top speed down hill with a tail wind about 60 mph, up hill in a head wind it struggles to maintain 40 mph. This Data is cheked and rechecked and measured with an accurate GPS device (the innovas speedo is rather optimistic)

Overall I find it reasonably comfy and very reliable.

You can say many things about a 125 innova; it's not cool, it's not fast, it has a poncy tank, it's wobbly etc etc BUT it has so much soul and for me it is the ultimate expression of freedom. No matter where you end up in life you can always hop on an innova and get around.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Ruskie said :-
Recently bought a 59 plate innova with just 2000miles on clock. Having come down from a 1000cc Honda it was quite a change !! I bought an old mk1 mazda MX5 last year on e-bay and found I was using that more than the bike so couldn't justify hanging on to big bike. As per other reviews I bought this for great fuel economy to get to work. Best so far is 149.5 mpg , the worst was 139 mpg. I am also converting a mini-bus into a day/camper van and the innova can just fit in the back !! Ok getting used to the gear change and gearing is odd at first. Getting used to skinny tyres etc is also a bit strange. Above all though, the ride is pure fun and exciting. Exciting ???
Well you try going down the A38 with cross winds at about 57 mph with an artic who wants to do 60mph 6 feet from your rear tyre !!!That's exciting !! My bike came with a rear givi type plate so I was able to fit my single Givi box which Ive had for years onto it and it gives the bike a bit more presence on the road apart from great storeage. I have recently been to Crete for a holiday where Innovas and other such bikes are common place. They ride them 3 up at times and nip along and some look quite old and are still going strong.
Overall I am very happy with my little pocket-rocket and cannot see me ridding it , even if I get a bigger bike again at some stage. I'm tempted to ride it out one day with my full leathers just to see the reaction !!
Yes go get one and you wont be disappointed !!!!
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Tim said :-
I've had my carb ANF 2007 for a few years now. It's splendid! In hilly Sheffield with me (110kg), huge top box plus books , it does around 125 mpg. Fastest ever on long downhill straight, indicated 72mph ,though no good for it. 50 - 60 easy and so light and manouverable.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
I was talking to a bike mechanic the other day. After many years on big bikes he and his circle of friends have taken the ANF 125 to heart. They've purchased one each and go off touring. Some days they cover 250 miles.

Like more and more people I talk to it seems the small engined motorcycles are proving to be much more fun on our speed limited, camera monitored and ever busier roads. Add to that the rising cost of fuel it seems economical, funky and fun is becoming the future.

Long live the small bikes!
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Jon said :-

I put around 7000 miles on my 2010 fuel injected Innova up until it was stolen and am about to collect my next 2010 one.

Top speed (with a screen fitted) was 63 mph (as indicated on my GPS with the speedo indicating around 68 mph. Best fuel consumption was 170 mpg at speeds around 40 mph. Typical fuel consumption when blatting along at 50 mph odd is about 140 mpg.

Useful range around 120 miles with a potential 150 miles at gentler speeds.

Similar to many larger motorcycles in fact.

A couple of holes punched through the fuel tank filler collar that goes down into the tank helps air escape as you fill up allowing the tank to be brimmed quickly. It's very thin metal and a screwdriver is enough to make the holes.

Like others, I carry a small 'pre-mix' fuel bottle with a litre in it 'just in case'...ridden very carefully it'll go more than 30 miles on a litre which should be enough to get you to the next fuel station

The fuel injected bikes are somewhat improved over the earlier ones with more comfortable seats, more effective headlights and of course the fuel injection means it pulls harder and more smoothly from lower revs as well as having better economy.

Although fitted with a kickstarter as well as its electric starter, the bike starts instantly on the button so I took the kicker off as it gets in the way of one's foot. Naturally that day was the day I left the ignition on overnight and completely flattened the battery. nevertheless, next morning it started with the lightest of push starts, just paddling it away, so the fuel injection doesn't need a battery to run!

The long stroke injected engine makes it's peak torque at an almost diesel-like 3000 rpm allowing the bike to be kept in top gear more often than one would think. Furthermore, the engine is very overgeared with a theoretical top speed of around 80 mph at max revs in top so in normal use it is not spinning as hard as many similar types of motorcycle engine which is good news for longevity...

(Before people ask, it won't go faster by changing the gearing....A 9 bhp engine is good for 60 ish no matter what the gearing or bike is so raising the gearing even more will simply make it less lively in top gear and lowering it will just make it rev faster at the same 60 mph)

Cold starts and high revs are a recipe for heavy engine wear and is why many small engined bikes do comparatively few miles before needing extensive engine work. Not ideal if you live in the UK and need to be at traffic speeds within a few hundred yards of setting off in the morning. The Innova's tall gearing ensures it has a gentle awakening on cold mornings which should bode well for the long term.

Unlike the older C90's, the Innova was designed to be ridden at modern traffic speeds so the engine doesn't get overly hot and therefore keeps its oil healthy. The older bikes can get hot enough when ridden fast over longer distances to destroy cheap oil leading to engine failure. Even so, I run my Innova on 0w-40 synthetic to benefit from the superior cold start properties as well at it's ability to cope easily with higher temperatures .

I've had two punctures, both nails through the rear cover and in both cases the nail destroyed the inner tube. in a perfect world I'd prefer tubeless tyres. You can plug them and reinflate using one of those aerosol cans of tyre sealant with the tyre still on the bike which requires less tools and a lot less hassle than taking a wheel out and carrying a spare tube around.
A pair of alloy Wave 110 tubeless wheels may be on the shopping list eventually....

I took mine on many 70-80 mile jaunts and it covered ground as fast as my car does as it slips through busy traffic so much better. I'd have no worries about going much further afield and the possibility of mechanical failure never even enters my mind...It is, after all, a Honda!

01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Mike said :-
Got an Innova last December as a surprise birthday present and have virtually parked the car except for family travel. Use it every day for work, 44miles round trip and no problems whatsoever. Economy excellent and no problems with speeds between 50 to 55 mph and bike is very comfortable at those. Have to go to Scotland next month for two weeks and looking forward to going on the bike from Belfast.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Phil said :-
It's been great reading all your comments. I own a 2003 carb'd Innova with 23k miles and it's been fantastic. With regards to speed and mpg, mine when I bought it 8mths ago achieved 66mph on the clocks sitting upright and 72mph if layed flat/prone. True this both directions and was the same each way. I keep a log on Fuelly dot com of my rides and to date over 1,366 miles I've averaged 140.5mpg with a best of 161.2mpg. I fill up at the same Shell garage on 95RON unleaded. A 100mile tank range is possible but I refill when it starts flashing the last bar on the digital fuel gauge and that's usually about 86miles. The fuel gauge I find is approx 12miles per indicator bar with the last one giving a further 20miles before the tank is empty.
Mine can sit at 60mph happily, and reach 65-68mph 95% of the time bar a strong headwind or hill. I tend to limit myself to about 55mph as it just hums along nicely at that speed!
I test rode an exact same 2003 model Innova as mine with just 8k miles on(as opposed to mine with 23k miles) and the difference in performance was staggering! It refused to go over 50mph and took much longer to get there, so I can safely say they get better with use. I suspect those with minimal and short journeys need a good decoke.
Handling is great, despite skinny tyres it can go round corners at decent speeds, suspension is very basic so bumps and potholes are your enemy! I use Heidenhein at £30/£25 each at Wemoto and can't rate them highly enough. Very decent tyres.
Choke operation is basic, increasing fuel richness but not raising the revs/idle so stalls easily. Best is to start it then let it warm up for 30seconds and ride gently for the first minute to avoid throttle hesitation. Being air cooled its quick to warm up.
I have a Honda top box on mine, can fit a helmet in it. Its rack bolts to the grab handle. An excellent addition top boxes are. Storage under the seat holds tools, chain, puncture kit, pump, spare inner tube and tire levers.
If I knew how good these bikes were before I bought my early model I would have bought a new one at around £2,200 OTH. But I've become attached to mine now despite it's only average condition to look at.
Valve adjustment is simple and easy. I run a one grade hotter ngk spark plug all the time so cruising at 50mph+ doesn't overheat the plug.
Things I don't like.
The headlight and the tungsten bulb is very poor. Ok spread but just too dim.
Plastic panels can rattle, I've run electrical tape along the joins to stop it. Not pretty but works.
Tubed tires are a pain to fix punctures and being skinny it's easy to nip the tube refitting it.
Mirrors are ok but could do with being another 1 inch further out.
Suspension is 'crashy' over bumps and pot holes.
Overall I and hugely happy with it tho. Great little bikes. I've got a Ducati Monster and Honda VFR but still enjoy the Innova.
If you check out twitter feed #125Innova you can see my mods and things I've done to it. My Fuelly page is
Where you can see my up to date mpg results. Today is 30th Sept 2014 for reference.

01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Phil said :-
Just a few interesting things I've found regarding my carb'd Innova for anyone with one too. The weedy tungsten filament headlight bulb is awful, but a halogen equivalent is available with a whiter output, I fitted a RING RMU417 12v 35/35w Ba20d for £5.34 delivered on Amazon and although not higher wattage the whiter light reflects off things more and makes riding at night safer.
Keep speeds below 55mph and generally easy on the throttle will see 150+mpg, I don't know why people say the later injection model is more efficient? My last fill up returned 154mpg. If your reading this and thinking about buying an Innova, the injection model is newer(less component wear and less corrosion/rust), with a better headlight beam, and less fuss on cold starts as injection sorts out the idle and fuelling whereas the carb model has a crude working choke lever. But it also has electronics and sensors that if they fail and cause a breakdown, can't be repaired at the roadside, the carb model is fixable most times and a lot cheaper to fix too if the problem is fuelling related(£15 for a replacement carb).
But in general they are both very reliable.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Geoff said :-
Great bike , purchased with 15000 miles on clock after 25years of riding a C90, and ownership of many larger bikes . Problems are minimal , access for service takes longer than on a C90 but very little needs to be done, change oil, check air cleaner, fit a new plug every year ( probably not really needed ) and just ride and enjoy it , I ride mine around rural Brittany, normally 2 -up as well , a larger fuel tank would be welcome but I carry a litre of fuel under the seat as limited fuel stations here.
NormaL 50mph or so cruising 2-up gives me around 115 mpg, should I need service items I find Lings Honda excellent, online ordering, exploded parts diagrams and delivery to rural Brittany in around 4-5 days.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Ibrahim nazim said :-
I need my motor cycle speedmeter low milage
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Phil said :-
Would like feedback and opinions on whether or not its worth the expense to sell a carb'd Innova to buy a FI one, factoring in the £500-700 i'd have to pay ontop of what i'd get for my carb'd Innova as its an early 2003 and i'd like something around 2011-on.
I heard build quality isn't too good on newer ones, things like black painted exhaust instead of the older model's chromed one, and more importantly the newest bikes i've seen don't have an enclosed chain anymore?
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Lobora said :-
I would like to buy Innova 125i and need help.

I found one good looking Innova but after the starting of engine it gives a strange sound from somewhere under the seat. It's like not so loud squeak or whistling. Can it be a fuel pump? Is it normal behaviour or not?
The bike is looking great, engine starts and works fine.. it's almost new - 5000km!

The new pump costs about $400!!!

Please help.

01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
Hi Lobora. It's almost impossible to diagnose the problem from afar. I'm afraid all I could suggest is getting a good mechanic to give it the once over.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Fraser Gray said :-
to Phil re selling carb'd model for FI model.
Hi Phil,if it were me I'd stick to the carb.Dead easy to fix/overhaul (repair kit from Wemoto is only £12,including jets), the Innova has one of the simplest carbs going.If you're a bit nervous about tackling this for the first time,try buying a knackered old Innova carb off e-bay for a few quid and take it to bits.And apologies if I'm talking to an experienced DIY man. But if an injector packs in you can't fix it yourself.
(Final tip- don't try and remove the cross-head screws on the float bowl with a Phillips,the screws are NOT Phillips,they are JIS (Japanese Industry Standard).Lots of guys fall foul of this and chew up the screws;quite common when they try to take the brake master cylinder cap off too,also JIS screws.Get JIS screwdrivers and you will be able to remove any cross-head screw on any Jap bike.Conversely,you will just chew them up without JIS screwdrivers) Hope this helps (to anyone else out there too.)
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
Fraser you make a very good point. Carbs are easier to fix and/or replace. Injection offers slightly better economy and performance but the differences are very very small on a small bike.

Modern injectors are pretty reliable though. Like the girl with a curl, when they're good they're great, when they're bad they're horrid.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Henrik said :-
So with Injection you get dependent on a fuel-pump that cast 400$ ,.. and an injector, I don't even dare to think about what the injector cost, and things that I guess not even a socalled "professional" would repair

When on the opposite you can maintain a cabutator for ever, or get it cheap

Probably more sofisticated electronic as well on the injection anf-model

Not realy hard to choose ,.. guess I appreciate my 2005 model :-)

It appeals to me also that the Keeways RKS/TX is carburettor based, you go a fair chance to keep it rolling for some more years,..

Having to struggle with my only 6 years old Opel Corsa. Just after the 2 year warrenty was over, the error-lamp turned on first time. Going to the store asking them "what does the error mean", they asked me 100 punds just to plug their reader, and report to me the error code. This is their concept in a nutshell, to put you in dependency, and then milk you dry,..

I left the shop for good, their horrid service-prices as well, and have been self-maintained since, my luck was that I got an cracked engine tester from china on ebay, that's not possible for all cars's so be aware !!!

But this is all an topic worth on it's own, to not let others take absolute control over our car or motorcycle, our bank-account, or anything else,..

Becourse that is what it is MAINLY about, I believe, not the slightly better fuel-econnomy, and not the ability being up to pollution-standards, either,..

What realy is driving the "progress" is being able to put you in dependancy

Many cars now are so sophisticated that normal "standard" error-readers are
not enough for normal maintainance, I could emagine the same with MC's,....

Knowing that a computer in fact is what controlling even a simple Opel Corsa its very easy to emagine that the error-lamp is even programmed to light up when they think its about time to rip you again, f.eks just after the warrenty expires, like I experienced,..

Ever heard about "Planned obsolescence", reality since the light bulb came, nothing new under the sun, not really,.. (link worth checking out)

Sorry for the OT rant ,.. but a topic that really pisses me off ;-)

01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
Henrik - under EU rules vehicle manufacturers are forced to release information that will allow other people access to details such as error codes. This is to allow a competitive market.

BUT - yes I agree that for the most part the modern vehicle seems to be designed not to be fixed by a bloke in a shed.

There is talk of rules to stop you tinkering with your own bike, fitting your own parts or making stuff to bolt on your machine and just generally making it almost impossible for the home mechanic to legally alter or fix their own bike.

Here in the UK it's pretty much illegal now to fix or repair your own home!
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Wuyang said :-
Ive owned both the carb and injection version. The injection had less rattles around the handlebar/ light area and starts 1st press of the button. I felt the engine feel of the injection felt abit more airy fairy to me......less meaty, but the speeds are generally the same, however I have been told the injection engine feels abit more meaty with a few miles under its belt........mine had 11,000 miles on it. I think it's a feel thing rather than a difference in performance.

I always thought it was the injection one that had the reputation of having a more uncomfortable seat, the fella who sold me mine had already had his padded........can't really comment which was most comfortable, after 30 miles if you get off for a minute or two your ready to go again....no big deal.

The rattles on the carb version around the handlebar/headlight area were spoiling my ride on the country lanes so I applied a little clear silicone around the gaps that I thought were making the noise, someone mentioned to me about adding some to the top of the head light where it meets the fairing.......all rattles have now gone. It's easy to remove the silicone if need be.

I'm six foot and weigh 16 stone and the innova has no problems carrying me about and I live in hilly Sheffield. I have however ( and this isn't a must, but has improved the ride considerably) changed the rear shocks to some good quality heavy duty ones.........(YSS hummer I think) you can get them on eBay. I'll post a pic at the bottom.....not sure if it'll work though.

I've had loads of bikes old bmws etc..vfr's, transalps, dominators, f650's, c90 cg125's, xr125.... The list goes on......., but I have to say I for some reason get more enjoyment from little bikes than the big fast ones.

The innova in my eyes is better than the Honda cg, it's much less vibey and a better riding position.....also the engine revs a lot more freely. Only downside to the innova is taking the panels off if necessary to access certain things, but this is easy. I also enjoy the innova more than the Honda xr125 on the country lanes,,,,,again the Xr125 has the vibey Honda cg125 pushrods engine.

The only other bike that I can praise as much as the Honda innova is the Honda sh300 scooter ( I've never ridden the sh125). This is an another amazing bike.........it's actually 270cc, but my goodness it's not your average scooter, it'll out perform much bigger cc scooters, 600cc silverwing for example. It'll do upto 90mpg and has decent size wheels....if you get the chance to try one.....treat yourself.......it's an amazing thing. So smooth and comforable.

It's like the innova big brother without gears......it's not a boring scooter like most are.

I've seen the Honda 110cc wave......but to me I sooner have a second hand innova. The wave has narrower leg shields, no chain guard, 15cc less, but no doubt it will still be a cracking bike...it just seems a bit cheaper.


01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
Hi Wuyang. I've added your image as a link to your photobucket image.

I don't actually know if there's any difference between the injection Innova and the Carby Innova, I thought they were the same bike except for the obvious fuelling method. That said I'm not the expert here so I stand to be corrected.

Them shocks look the part! How much were they?
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Wuyang said :-
Hi Ren, cheers for sorting the link out. The shocks are not cheap, but they are very good quality and adjustable, I think they're £100-110 delivered. I'm pretty sure they advertise a different serial number for the injection shocks, but I was told they were actually the same shock. You can also fit other shocks, one fella has put some adjustables on his that I think were off either a Honda cb 100 or 125cc which he says are a good improvement over the originals.

The lights are halogen on the injection if I remember rightly and the plastics definitely rattled less......although now I've added a bit of silicone you can't here any rattles. Both great bikes.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
Well Wuyang I am in awe at your knowledge. You should start an Innova website.

Don't think 100 quid for shocks is too bad actually, especially if they're good quality. And as long as the shock length and fittings are the same twin shocks are interchangeable. It could meake things better or worse though depending on the spring and damping rates.

Enjoy your ride! If you fancy putting your own review and/or knowledge down I'd love to publish it on here. Renwithnell@hotmail.com.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
said :-
Ren: As for competitive market, EU, error codes, and so on, I think I rest my case, and don't hi-jack this Innova subject to much. Scary things you tell about DIY in the UK, even more so since UK in my book was always the proud DIY nation over all others. I think this subject deserves its own topic, but doubt if there will be much interest. wake me up in case :-)

On the Innova-topic I just comes from the garage, and have been thinking about how lousy the leg-shields are when it comes to protection agains rain, it looks like a scooter, but you get wet like on a normal MC, and all just for the reason that it's a very little bit to narrow, if those shields had been 2-3 inches wider, covering the shoes as well, and angled a bit backwards they would be so much more protective, if I had the time I would modify them and add a little to them

I miss the experience how much a well layed out scooter could protect you against modest rain, a lot I guess, especially with a little wind screen to protect the torso of the body.

That new Address 110 sure looks interesting, a very big luggage room under the seat, and a wet weight on only 97 kg, tank 5.2 litres,..

01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Henrik said :-
Forgot my name :-) looking forward for some more Address reviews, and
consumption-tests, around 50 km/l they claim,.. back to Innova :-)

01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
50 km/l is about 140mpg (imperial gallons). That's not bad, about what I get from the CBF125. What do you typically get form the Innova Henrik?
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Henrik said :-
Hi, Typically I get around 37 km/l in mixed town traffic, that is good I think, what is bad is that I don't get so much more in the countryside, only around 40-43 km/l or so at most as far as I remember. Even if I try to snail around at 60 pct of the top-speed it does not help much. Never got 50 km/l.

It's a 2005 cab-model, it needs valve-adjustment, and a new exhaust, but got new air-filter, the chain well lubricated, and relatively hard tire-pressure, so only hope is that adjusting valves would improve things
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Fraser Gray said :-
Hi Henrik
A valve adjustment is not going to make much,if any, difference to your fuel consumption. also,the valves on these bikes hardly ever drift out of spec,so I don't think that's your problem. You may have a very slightly binding brake,which can make a difference.Put the bike up on the main stand and try spinning the front wheel.If you have been riding in all weathers,the piston dust seals can collect a lot of dirt which stops the pistons from moving freely.Even if the brake is only binding a little,it can affect the fuel consumption on a light little bike like this. (And was the air filter seated properly?If not, and air is getting pulled in through the seat,this will also increase your fuel burn.Try checking these simple things first.)
Regards, Fraser
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Fraser Gray said :-
Ps, I did not mean air getting pulled thru the actual seat,but the seating of the air filter!
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Henrik said :-
Fraser: thanks for your suggestions, the bike is in Sweden, and I am in Copenhagen right now, but I will check out the two things soonest possible, guess both is ok, but I will check still, also maybe the chain for any unexpected stiff parts, btw the air-filter is an aftermarket part from WeMoto, but guess that
doesnt matter, I am about put on a new exhoust also, (aftermarket as well), after that it will take a periode of time to average meassures before I can be up to date with reliable new numbers, but I will keep an eye on it for sure :-)
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Boo said :-
That red bike with the sidecar in the pic at the top isn't an Innova... It's a Modenas Kriss, Malaysian copy of the Kawasaki Kazer.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
I can't argue with ya Boo...you probably know a lot better than I do! Cheers.
01/01/2000 12:00:00 UTC
Phil said :-
Well an update on my '03 carb'd Honda Innova. I traded it into a Honda dealership at the start of May '16 with 26,500 miles on the clock, and bought myself a '15-reg Honda CBF125 in white with 810 miles on the clock.
Main reason for selling the Innova, I was fed up with how car drivers were treating me on a scooter despite no L-plates(I've had my full bike licence since the '90's). Shame as I really loved my Innova.
But my CBF125 is my new love, despite it suffering the famed 'kangarooing' on the ride home lol(Google it). Anyway dealer sorted it in 2 days and now with the new fuel pump it's been brilliant! Averaging between 123-138mpg and I'm not holding back either. So I recon 150mpg is possible if ridden gently.
Has more torque than the Innova, and proper gears and also no more tubed tires! Yay! So if I get a puncture now I can just use a puncture repair plug in the tire and off I go. No more carrying around tire levers, talc powder, inner tubes etc.
I'm keeping on top of the protection with ACF50 spray every month as they can rust badly if not looked after.
To date, after 7 weeks and 700 miles I've had ZERO issues with cars treating me badly on the roads. No more tailgating etc. Purely cos it looks like a motorbike and not a scooter which drivers relate to being a 50cc I think so wanna always overtake when I had my Innova.
100% reliable, economical, and I enjoy every ride again which is the important thing.
As an extra note, I had a brand new '16 Honda CB125F as a courtesy bike while my CBF125 was being fixed at the dealership and it wasn't anywhere near as good as my CBF125 I'd just bought. Less torque, painful seat, foot pegs too far forward, build quality was dire, Chinese tires. So I'm glad I chose to buy the last of the line 2015 Honda CBF125 models and not it's new 2016 replacement the CB125F.

29/06/2016 09:24:26 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
Hi Phil

If you look around this website you'll see that I own an '09 CBF125 that I've put 54,000 miles on now. There's a massive dollop of CBF125 information on Bikes And Travels. I've also ridden the CB125F and there's a review on that too.

I'm know about the kangaroo problem but luckily I've not suffered it myself yet. Believe me, my bikes long long long out of warranty now.

As for being tailgated. Well...yeah...I can see that the Innova looks like a scoot and therefore MUST be overtaken. And yet I still suffer tailgating on my CBF125 simply because some people just can't accept the speed limits that I try to follow closely. We've just returned from The Netherlands, they make British tailgaters look like rank amateurs.

Anyhow good to hear from you and keep us up to date with your 2 wheeled adventures.
29/06/2016 09:46:20 UTC
jonny hates jazz said :-
Over 10,000 on my 08 innova FI now.
Still using it all year round on a motorway commute.
Got original rack and givi plate/top box and hand muffs.
Tall honda screen which is great and keeps the weather off.
So easy to service yourself which is main reason i haven't upgraded to a bigger bike ( i have passed test and have full license ) and great fuel economy.
28/01/2017 11:15:34 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
You'll not find a bigger bike that will give you the same fuel economy or indeed ease of use jonny hates jazz. It sounds like you've got the best bike for the job.

Do you think you'll see 20,000, 30,000 and even 40,000 miles on the wee beastie?
29/01/2017 07:05:50 UTC
Greg said :-
Hello everyone.
I have a 2010 fuel-injected model. I swapped the rear shocks for the ones from a Yamaha YBR 125 that fit without any modification. It is a *huge* improvement regarding the cornering stability. Trust me on this : dump your OEM shocks, you won't regret it.

I also unscrewed the kickstarter and re-positionned it a bit further back so my ankle won't bump on it while riding. It is tilted roughly 45 degrees backwards. It still works fine, but it doesn't get in the way of my foot anymore.

Last point I improved : the front lightbulb, swapped for a Philips model. It's better than the stock bulb, but still not very satisfactory at night.

I am bothered by the rattling noise coming from the front cover, I will try to fix this soon.
22/03/2017 04:48:02 UTC
Beat said :-
Well I have been to Faro on my Innova 125, as well as to Moscow, Ankara, Edinborough or Famagusta, to Nordkapp and Oslo, just in every European Country. It never let me down. Never any technical Trouble. There is no other motorbike that is so extremely reliable. And the innova is the only motorbike that I can ride for a full day without a sore posterior or a stiff neck. What more could I ask for. I get 10 mpg out of the carburettor model and 13 mpg out of the fuel injected model, in the (very) long run.
09/07/2017 07:01:10 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
I'm guessing you mean 100 and 130 mpg Beat?

That's some ridiculously serious touring Beat! It proves you don't need a big bike to explore the world. I'd love to hear more about your adventures.
09/07/2017 09:28:26 UTC
Ivan OakesI said :-
I always have Hondas in 1959 got a Honda 50 then a 90 then Honda 175 twin , Then went on to the Inova Then the CRV scooter latest tec to do the tappers the scooter needs a complete strip down I am 81 years young very hard to get insurance, Guess what seen a Honda Inova 2008 with 800 miles on the clock Just Right for my fishing trips, Had about 30 Hondas this is my last one . How could I refuse it's a 2008 with only 800 on the clock all mots full service history.0
10/07/2017 01:09:54 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
Sound like you've bagged a great little bike Ivan. I hope I can still be potting about on two wheels when I'm 80 years young. Mind you will we still have motorcycles when I'm 80? They'll be electric, self riding and fully enclosed by then probably.
10/07/2017 08:52:00 UTC
Ivan Oakes said :-
My Inova has tubed tyres is there a pump I can fit under the seat in case of a puncture regards.
16/07/2017 10:01:12 UTC
Ian Soady said :-
Are you also going to carry a spare tube (or 2 if the tyres are very different sizes), tyre levers and the tools to remove / refit the wheel?
16/07/2017 10:25:44 UTC
Borsuk said :-
I have put pre-puncture sealant in both my tubed tyres after I had to replace the rear tube, cost was the same as replacing one tube. Almost as soon as the puncture happened the tube was deflated, the back end was crabbing around and the tyre was running off the rims. Tyre weld didn't work, I suspect the tube got nicked in a couple of places including where the valve passes through the wheel. I have a small bicycle pump I can use to top them up when I check them, or you can get smallish 12v pumps on ebay. Just need to change the aux socket plug to croc clips with an inline fuse to connect direct to the battery.
16/07/2017 11:39:08 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
I've never tried the various slimes. I keep on seeing various videos and such demonstrating their amazing powers but this tends to be marketing. Borsuk - while I'm not asking you to deliberately get a puncture if you should I'd like to hear your report on the effectiveness of your gloopy stuff.

I think for inner tubes gloop or slime or whatnot is fine but I know in tubeless the tyre changing shops hate it as it messes up their kit. Woe-betide anyone going for a new tyre that's used tyreweld and the like. Some shops actually charge extra if they find this stuff inside.

I can't believe we have sent man to the moon and created MRI scanners but we still entrust our lives to rubber balloons filled with pressurised air on roads covered in nails, glass and thorns.
19/07/2017 04:34:41 UTC
Matt Mac said :-
Hi , it was great to read all off the reviews and advice on the little Honda.It helped me to decide on what to buy.I bought a 04 Innova with 940 miles with the mot certificates to back up the miles . I am 66 fed up trying to park wanted cheaper transport is 100+ MPG as opposed to 35 happy days! Thank you everyone
29/08/2017 10:43:11 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
940 miles!!! Blimey that's ridiculous but that's the way to but them. Enjoy your Innova Matt Mac
29/08/2017 01:14:07 UTC
Phil said :-
Hi Ren, thought I'd update on my bikes.
I traded the 2015 CBf125 in along with my 1200 Bandit and bought myself a 2015 Kawasaki' ER6N. A great bike in itself but I am now missing owning a 125 after 5months. :(
I loved the CBF125 but plans to use it commuting failed miserably, as when you have a 1200 Bandit parked next to it, I couldn't help myself always taking that instead of the 125.
So after owning the CBF a year and 2,500 miles it has now gone.
Brilliant 'bike' tho. But despite heavy use of ACF50 and keeping it in tip top condition and serviced regularly , I still suffered with fading blacks-colour on the rear springs from sunlight and paint flaking on the engine and other minor things like a rusting exhaust, despite my ocd looking after it. When you see on eBay the number of rusted cbf's for sale it's not difficult to see that quality isn't good on them. Although reliability is still amazing. I averaged 135mpg on mine overall.
But now I'm missing owning a 125, I found a 2011 FI Innova for sale at a dealership 80 miles away for £1,399. 4K miles. But upon reading my comments here I've realised the reason I sold mine and have now decided not to get another 'scooter'.
Will update on my bikes again one day but for now I'm enjoying having 2 not 3 bikes, my trusty 2001 Ducati Monster Dark and my lovely 2015 Kawasaki's ER6N. :)
How are things with you Ren?
13/02/2018 10:59:46 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
Hi Phil. Things are fine here thank you.

The world is filled with different people driven by different motives. I have my CB500X and my CBF125 parked in the same shed and yet every morning I pull the CBF125 out quite happily. For myself I find it easy to ride in the traffic, I don't stress too much about it being stolen from outside of work even though it is quite secure and I don't stress about it wearing out because it is already worn out.

The idea of using a 500 to hack through endless junctions, roundabouts, traffic queues, traffic lights and speed limits seems like a total waste of its potential. The 500 is happy in traffic, the 125 is happier.

How are you finding the ER6N? Are you using it for commuting? The one criticism I'd level at the ER6 was the heavy clutch you see.
13/02/2018 12:56:58 UTC
Wuyang said :-
Owned four anf125's over the years.......3 injection and 1 carb.....not got one at the moment. One of my favourite bikes. The injection is a bit more refined, but I feel the chrome and swinging arm paint is thinner. The carb engine feels more meaty, but they all have the same top end......think it was 72/74 down hill...if that's your thing. Better headlights on inj also and less plastic rattle.

Love going slow on country roads taking it all in....flask of tea in topbox......(got to have a topbox). I used a airhawk pad on my seat which I can highly recommend given you can transfer them between bikes ( if you do buy an airhawk only put a bit of air in it).

The injection is more economical, but I never got less than around 120 on the carb model. Fun little bikes that give you a sense of adventure when you go out. Highly recommended.
14/05/2018 10:57:11 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
Cheers Wuyang. I wonder if the injection ones were made in a different factory than the carb ones? I'm sure someone will know out there. A flask of tea you say, my how jolly civilised.
15/05/2018 07:47:57 UTC
Hobo said :-
Thanks for all the comments, helpful as I look to buy a 2007 4k mile innova.
The garage currently has an Electra glide, fazer and BMW c1 (200) with my YP400 making way for the innova. It will be a commuter tool for 30odd mile round trip, taking Lincolnshire back roads rather than the more direct A1 route. A screen and handguards will be fitted, it already has a sizable honda top box. I notice online (Amazon & eBay) a three point fitting rack for the step through area is available for the pre injection models, whilst I've seen pictures of a four point fitting rack for later ones I've found no suppliers. Any help?
Also whilst ACF50 is more expensive than WD40 it's not detrimental to rubber so I coat skinny parts on all my bikes with it.

28/04/2019 06:30:57 UTC
Pocketpete said :-
Has every biker in the world at some point ridden or owned a c50 or c90?

I do remember using my c50 to go to work on for 2 years carrying my 18stone butt. Never failed to start. Was stolen from the police station car park.

Replaced with a police auction c90 again never let me down and did silly mpg. It did look silly parked next to my gsxr750. But it was always the c90 I took in the morning traffic nightmare.

I just changed the oil every now and then and it seemed to just keep going.

Eventually it rusted away at the rear of the frame somewhere. I sold it as someone wanted the engine got almost what I paid for it.

28/04/2019 07:24:14 UTC
Upt'North said :-
I think you missed out riders of a certain age Pete. And I am that certain age so chalk me up for a C50.
Loved it, but another 10 mph would have been good.
28/04/2019 05:40:47 UTC
Sandie said :-
Hey all.. Having a good chuckle at your comments. I have an Innova, but want to know if anyone else's is a boneshaker?! It maybe due to the lightness of the bike or something wrong with mine.?
04/07/2019 03:51:22 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
Boneshaker? The Innova is light so the bumps will be felt more than say a massive Pan Euro - but I never thought of it as being a boneshaker likely to rattle your teeth out. Check the suspension moves correctly. If you're in the UK and the bike has an MOT from a respectable garage then the suspension would have had a cursory check at MOT time.
05/07/2019 07:33:58 UTC
Sandie said :-
Yes it's just had its Mot and passed fine, but I was going to get the suspension checked by someone else.. Coz its very bouncy. Love my bike tho, so light and easy :)
07/07/2019 11:42:57 UTC
Ren - The Ed said :-
There's not a lot to go wrong on those twin shocks Sandie. If they aren't leaking and the damping is good, and the spring isn't broken then that's all you can ask for. It won't do any harm to seek other's opinions though. Just a quick look on Google I can find replacement shocks for around £40. At that price they'll be "fine" but it might be worth paying a little extra for a known brand.
08/07/2019 10:40:08 UTC
Bogger said :-
I've read most of the posts on the Innova. I've owned two, both carb models.

The first one was 2003 reg and was very smooth and reasonably quick. It got nicked. So a bought another. This was 2007 reg. Compared to the first one, the performance was nowhere near as good and certainly not as smooth.

After a trip to France and Spain on it I sold it on. I was disappointed with its performance and those bloody rattling plastics. Seven years on I'm taking the plunge again and going for my 3rd Innova. 2007 reg. we'll see I get on with it.

Got six other bikes so it won't be lacking company in the garage. Best mods for C90's or Innovas is. Put in an Iridium plug, fit a smallish screen and use fully synthetic engine oil and make sure the chain is adjusted and well lubed. Car engine oil is fine for the engine and no the clutch won't slip.


25/12/2019 05:33:25 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
Agree regarding clutch slip with car oils - unless you're putting out 100bhp. I'm guessing if you've already had 2 innovas and now you're getting another I dare say they're under you skin, in your psyche. There must be something you like about them.
27/12/2019 10:11:03 UTC
Bogger said :-
I particularly like this one. It's free, as in no charge. I've got to be happy with that I suppose. I really liked the first one. The second was a bit of a disappointment in comparison. We'll see how the third ones fares. I'll let you know.

However the second one did get me to Spain and back with no problems a few years back. I took far, far too much stuff . I should have ditched half of it en-route, but I'm to tight to throw good things away.

It drank oil all the way there and back (constantly on the stop)but at the time I was using semi synthetic oil. Since that trip, in all my bikes, I've used fully synthetic with no issues and lightened the camping load considerably. You live and learn. I'm off to Croatia in 2020. I had planned to go on my new Cub, the C125. I may now go on the Innova. We'll see.

30/12/2019 09:02:09 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
Free? FREE?!? Where or how do you get a free Innova 125?

So it drank oil until you started using fully synthetic? My CBF125 is rather oil thirsty these days, I wonder if fully synth would help? Thing is I suspect your 2nd Innova was using oil due to heat from being "constantly on the stop" whereas I think my 125 uses oil due to worn out rings, and valve guides. Might get a litre of fully synth just as a matter of research though.
02/01/2020 09:21:09 UTC
Upt'North said :-
Bogger, why did you have to say free, it's only the 2nd and Ed's already in a bad/normal mood.
It could be a long year.

02/01/2020 01:42:00 UTC
nab301 said :-
Re synthetic oil in bikes , I've used fully synthetic in all my bikes (except my Enfield) in recent years . In general they don't use oil and especially if they're air cooled I reckon fully synthetic is a must , Even my 123k mile 1100 bmw lost its thirst for oil after using 5w 40 synthetic instead of 20w 50 mineral, did more miles to the gallon of petrol and turned over more easily on the starter. Some of the classic magazines reckon though, that if you garage the bike ( non use) for long periods of time that synthetic oil doesn't cling as well to bearing surfaces ( obviously it flows better at cold start up) and can allow corrosion to develop , so in general if you give the bike a hard time and use it regularly fully synthetic should be the one to use.
02/01/2020 08:45:34 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
Upt' - Am I not a little joyous ray of sunshine? Am I not a veritable purveyor of joie de vivre? Am I not the epitome of positive thoughts?

nab301 - Which fully synthetic would you suggest? The drinker aka the CBF125 is used around 5 days a week so being stood for a long time is not an issue.
03/01/2020 02:54:26 UTC
nab301 said :-
Ren , I've been using Eurol oil (specifically part number E100102) because it's available locally at the right price from a relative of mine and is suitable for all my modern bikes but worringly their online oil advisor appears to have changed for the CBF125 / CB125f just recently ( it was listed a couple of weeks ago) to " We're sorry to say that we currently do not have an oil advice for your engine/transmission."
I'll make enquiries and get back asap.
04/01/2020 08:30:22 UTC
Upt'North said :-
Nigel, at risk of encouraging an oil thread, and no good can come of that, perhaps they have made it "energy conserving", I know the markings on the bottle would indicate if this is the case.
05/01/2020 10:25:51 UTC
nab301 said :-
@ Upt'North , It's a bike specific oil and is still listed as ok for my other bikes and other Hondas . It's possible Honda have changed their recommendations for the CBF / CB ? I'll find out during the week hopefully!
05/01/2020 08:06:18 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
I can find the Eurol oil but either in 1 litre bottles at great price - or - ahem - 60 litre barrels! Who is your mysterious connection in the oil world and can this shady character send me some my way at affordable prices?

Curious about no longer listing the oil for the CBF, I await with baited breath the results of your enquiries.
05/01/2020 08:20:12 UTC
nab301 said :-
Ren , there's no mystery , a relative of mine works in a local oil distributor, Dublin based, so unfortunately shipping would probably be a problem.. Re the lack of a current listing , no definitive answer other than it'll probably reappear ... Maybe they're reviewing the formulation. Strangely I recently changed the oil in my DL250 and used semi synthetic Eurol E100097, ( for no reason other than I had some "in Stock",)I reckon the gear change is better although it is now using (admittedly very little) oil .
11/01/2020 08:30:17 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
When you put the semi in the DL250 was it the same viscosity? Also how old was the oil that you took out? It's really hard to compare eggs with eggs unless you are happy to throw away good oil for a back to back comparison. It's the same with tyres, I've just fitted a new rear on the 125 and it feels great - even though it's the same make and model as I took off.
13/01/2020 09:22:36 UTC
Bogger said :-
This is my last comment ref oil. In all my bikes I use fully synthetic car engine oil. There, I've said it LOL. None of the bikes have ever had clutch slip or blown up. They all sound very sweet.Personally I would avoid energy conserving or long life oils.

Just as an aside I went to Corsica in 2018 on a Yamaha YBR125. Obviously equipped with 5/30 fully synthetic. On the way home the three of us all on 125's went from Toulon to Calais in 2 days.

Ok back to my new FREE Innova. I collected it two weeks ago. It had not turned a wheel in two years. I got it going within the hour and have already stripped the brakes and replaced the caliper piston seals. I've changed the oil a couple of times and each time I put in some engine flush. This weekend the plastics are coming off as all the fasteners are semi seized. I'll clean them up and grease them etc. I'm going to replace the timing chain as well while I'm at it. I have also started the general clean up. I'll keep you posted.

17/01/2020 08:23:51 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
Last comment on oil? NEVER! Oil is the subject that just keeps on giving and giving.

So the freebie is already a runner? Excellent, sounds like you got a great deal. Enjoy your tinkering :)
18/01/2020 09:06:09 UTC
Upt'North said :-
I think you'll find that oil threads don't give, they drain.
18/01/2020 03:37:32 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
19/01/2020 09:45:31 UTC
Bogger said :-
Timing chain now replaced. Done the tappets again. It now sounds really sweet. For some reason I didn't replace the spark plug with the new one I had??

Some of the screws holding the plastics on were solid and I've had to drill them out. Ah well. I've so far resisted the urge to strip and clean the carb, but watch this space.

I think I'm going to get it roadworthy then run it to and from work (24 mls a day) for a few days just to get the feel of it. Just to see what it goes like etc. Then start fettling from there. I think I'll get some new tyres on it as well.

Oh just to rub salt into the wounds. It also came with a rack, top box and handle bar muffs. In with the price LOL, he also gave me an optimate battery charger and disc lock.
Keep you posted

20/01/2020 08:13:49 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
Sheeez Bogger just keep on bringing me down will ya. Are you doing a full resto? My point is if I were using it as a work hack I'd just get it running, make sure it's safe then use it.
21/01/2020 03:48:34 UTC
Bogger said :-
Absolutely not a restoration. Just do all the mechanicals so it's safe and hopefully reliable. I've already got one project that is 6yrs old on the go. I just can't be bothered to finish it.

I don't mind doing a bit of tarting up here and there. Doing it in bite size chunks, so as to not over face myself with it. I'll occasionally run it to and from work just to give it a run out. Although I have dallied with using it to get to Croatia on this summer instead of my new Honda C125 Super Cub?????

Depending on axle weights etc I'll be putting it on the back of the Motorhome. Err motorhome axle weights, just in case you were wondering.

I'll be doing a bit more work on it this weekend with a bit of luck. I'm thinking rear brake strip, chain removal and inspection/clean/replacement. Just general fettling really.

23/01/2020 08:43:16 UTC
Bogger said :-
If anyone is interested I found a write up of my Spain trip abroad on the Innova. I thought it had disappeared forever. I can't believe it was ten years ago. I'm no good at links etc but see if you can find it from this? https://www.pitstopmotorcycles.co.uk/ne ... ummer-2010

It was written mainly for other biking folks that I know on another message board and the fact that they all knew most of the other guys that were on the trip. Ed if you don't deem this suitable use of you blog please delete.

23/01/2020 08:53:01 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
Oh LORDY! Not another motorhome owner! Upt' will be complaining about the Tin Tent conversations again.

I've found the link and I'll add it properly this time. It's a fair old read so I'll have a proper look when I've time. It's about a motorcycle trip so it is suitable, the overly sensitive and politically correct among you might wish to note there's some adult humour, nothing serious.

By the way, how'd it end up on Pitstop Motorcycle's website? I very very vaguely know the guys there from back in't day and I go by that way quite often.
24/01/2020 09:48:45 UTC
Upt'North said :-
Bogger, respect to you and your chums, that's a long way on a tiddler.
No one can excuse you for using one word when 500 will do.
Thought it strange how some just decided to head for home, but we're all different I suppose.
Enjoyed the read, I'm looking forward to a Spanish Soirée this year myself, can't wait. And yes the Millau can be a little wild.
24/01/2020 04:49:21 UTC
Bogger said :-
I live just around the corner from Pitstop. I've used them/Tony for years for the odd spare parts that I purchased. He's a really decent bloke and his prices a very reasonable and advice is always free. BTW I'm not promoting him just telling it as it is. Anyway we always have a bit of banter ref the daft escapades I get to go on. He asked if it was ok if he could put the story on his website.

I've another good one lurking on the Internet somewhere about our trip to the Czech republic on our C90's.

Mr Upt'North, ref the CZ rider, Chris, going back home. It literally happen as described. We were all aghast to be honest. Not only did he go back home, but did it non stop. Didn't camp, didn't sleep just carried on until he got home North of Preston. He admitted later that it was a stupid and ridiculous thing to do. There was no reason to get home? he said that once he got going he never thought of stopping. He said it took him over a week to get over it LOL.
24/01/2020 08:34:16 UTC
Upt'North said :-
Czech write up would be interesting to read.
24/01/2020 10:52:25 UTC
Borsuk said :-
Hi Ren, just been re-reading this thread and your request for me to get a puncture.

I have had punctures on both the Hima and the Honley back tyres without sealant which resulted in immediate loss of control at the back end. Fishtailing, tyres running over rims etc.
I have the gunk in all my tyres now and a front puncture on the Himalayan at 65 on the autovia resulted in a slow puncture that I never noticed till a few miles later at a petrol station. I still have the old tube which I partially inflated in my basement and it is still inflated the best part of a year later.
At about 90 quid to do all 3 bikes I think it was well worth it. If I had managed to find the staple that had punctured the tube I could have probably continued on without problems after initially blowing it up.
The thing that makes this stuff worth it to me is the fact that the puncture reacted similarly to a tubeless tyre. If I hadn`t had the sealant I pretty much think I would have had much worse experience than just a slow puncture. Pretty sure I would not be writing this.
For me the stuff is literally a life saver, wouldn`t drive a tubed vehicle without it now.
25/01/2020 12:01:26 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
Well Bogger I live in Horwich so I'm about 10 miles from you.

That's really good info Borsuk. Having suffered a couple of immediate deflations in my own tubed days that scared the living bejesus out of me I acquired an abject fear of tubed tyres. My limited bicycling experiences only served to reinforce this too. Which gloop have you used?
25/01/2020 08:44:07 UTC
Upt'North said :-
Yes, although mine are tubeless, what gloop please.
I'm going to do mine when the next set go on, I dread a puncture abroad.
Only ever suffered one "blowout", no not after a curry Ren, it was on the back of a K1100LT at high speed on the M40. Scary moment and that was tubeless.
25/01/2020 11:29:09 UTC
Borsuk said :-
Gribblings Guys.

Bike-Seal. 30 quid for a 550ml bottle which is enough to do both tyres on my bikes.

25/01/2020 12:51:04 UTC
Upt'North said :-
Thanks Borsuk.
I'll get some ordered.
25/01/2020 04:00:32 UTC
Borsuk said :-
Where and when are you thinking of going to Spain Up`t.
25/01/2020 11:42:01 UTC
Upt'North said :-
It's going to be early to mid September, at the moment it would seem we favour Seville, Porto and all roads in between. Maybe Cordoba too and Northern Spain, we are getting the ferry to Bilbao for the first time, I just couldn't start to get my head around another jaunt through France. It either becomes 2 x 90 mph autoroute days or 4 x "let's meander through France at 30 mph days", which eventually and slowly make what little brain I have sizzle.
We're looking forward to it, it's 5 years since we rode in Spain and Portugal which must be too long ago.
26/01/2020 09:49:22 UTC
Bogger said :-
I went out on the new FREE Innova for the first time on Sunday. Oh my God it was slow. Acceleration seemed ok'ish. But once I got on the motorway North towards Preston, it really struggled. 55mph took ages. I just kept the throttle pinned all the way.The best was 67mph and that was NOT on the flat. The more miles I did, it seemed to free up a little and I mean a little.
I stopped at a mates house as arranged, two other lads turned up. One was on his 200cc VanVan. The other on his BossHoss 5.0 something litre V8.
Let the race commence! Throttles to the stop to Glasson Dock. All at legal speeds of course officer. The Innova seemed to have gained a BHP, possibly, but was no match for the mighty PCX125. The VanVan and BossHoss were miles behind. We had stopped, ordered a bacon butty and got a drink before the other two turned up.
The journey back was at a less fraught pace, until the motorway, then it it was full chat again. It seemed a little bit faster.
I know the guy who had the bike before me, just trundled to and from work on it. A bit (lot) more thrashing might clear it out some more? Oh, a 1 tooth smaller front sprocket has been ordered. I'l let you know if this has any effect on the minimal performance.

03/03/2020 01:14:58 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
At least it's working Bogger! I recall when I acquired my Honda CLR125 City Fly. The lad who'd owned it previously hadn't passed his test so it'd been used for commuting and had never seen a motorway. The first few hundred, maybe thousand miles of high speed running the bike felt "tight". I know it seems silly but it's as though the bike was fully run in at lower revs but needed running in at higher revs. It eased off quite nicely.

You have to accept it's never going to be *quite* as powerful as a 5 litre V8 motorcycle. As Scotty said - "Ya canny change the laws of physics Bogger". Your licence and your wallet will thank you.
03/03/2020 04:17:55 UTC
Bogger said :-
I've spoken to a mate of mine tonight and he reckons adding a small capful of two stroke oil, in the next few tanks of fuel, should help to 'de-coke' it?? Anything is worth a try I suppose.

03/03/2020 09:01:08 UTC
Ross said :-
I've no direct experience of your problem, but given that I remember with old two-strokes I've owned in the past they all needed de-coking that 'sounds' wrong...I'd have thought a couple of tankful's of something like Shell Vpower with it's cleaning properties would be more useful...maybe?!
04/03/2020 08:25:33 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
I must admit the idea of adding 2-stroke would cause me to think that would add to any coking not remove it - but - the mysteries of oil and petrol and coking and decoking are a dark art. Maybe your friend knows something I don't. I can't imagine it'd do much harm to try.

Other than that there's the old "Italian Tune-up", ie thrash it for a while.
04/03/2020 09:31:32 UTC
CrazyFrog said :-
There's no 2T oil ever been invented that will 'decoke' an engine. Modern 2T synthetic oils are almost smokeless and therefore deposit far far fewer carbon deposits in the engine, but they will never help decoke an already coked up engine. Additionally, with modern fuels, I'd be amazed if any four stroke ever became coked up enough to affect performance unless it had a major mechanical problem causing it to burn large quantities of engine oil.

I think just accepting that it's a low powered 125 and enjoying it for what it is is probably the way to go!
04/03/2020 12:35:20 UTC
Bogger said :-
Matey boy said, just put the basic Wilko type mineral 2T oil in. I was also sceptical and said it would add to the Coking up. He said not??? For what it's worth I'll give it a go and combine this with the 'Italian' tuning method.

Mr Frog, I, unfortunately, am only too aware of the limitations of the Innova. However I reckon there is a bit more to be had out of this one....maybe.

04/03/2020 12:45:08 UTC
Ross said :-
"CrazyFrog said :- (SNIP) I'd be amazed if any four stroke ever became coked up enough to affect performance unless it had a major mechanical problem causing it to burn large quantities of engine oil."

It can be a problem in some direct injection engines, apparently. There's a lot of moaning about it on one of the Audi forums I follow...and the reason I run my Audi on Shell VPower, and usually the bike too!
04/03/2020 04:31:24 UTC
CrazyFrog said :-
I'm amazed Ross. Doesn't that imply that poor combustion is taking place? I thought the whole purpose behind the latest engines was to increase the efficiency of the burn and to reduce emissions.

That said, I did see something recently which said that the latest generation of cars produce more CO2 than their predecessors :-0
04/03/2020 04:52:12 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
The problem with Direct Injection...

The breather from the crankcase is routed to the airbox on most modern vehicles. This is to ensure the nasty harmful vapours released by even the best of oils gets burned through the engine rather than vented to the atmosphere. So rather than ingesting clean air the engine ingests mostly air and some oil fumes.

In a normal engine when the air (and oil vapour) comes into the hot motor - fuel is then injected. This fuel washes away the oil deposits before they have time to carbonise. If the fuel is directly injected into the combustion chamber there is no fuel to wash away the deposits from the oil vapour. With the heat of the motor this causes the carbon build up.
04/03/2020 05:14:03 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
A more detailed explanation...
04/03/2020 05:20:10 UTC
Bogger said :-
The front sprocket arrived yesterday so without further ado I fitted it last night. This is the 13 tooth sprocket as opposed to the standard 14 Tooth. Will it make any difference?

Absolutely it makes a difference. This is my third Innova and I wish I'd done it on the previous two. Don't get me wrong it doesn't do 100mph or rip your arms out of there sockets when accelerating. But it does make the bike much, much nicer to ride (travelled to work on it this morning).

It will cruise at 60mph now and getting to this speed is much easier. For a generally grumpy, cantankerous old git, I'm reasonably happy. Well happish.

05/03/2020 06:54:45 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
We'll be having none of your happiness on here Bogger! Good heavens man, get a grip. How much of the acceleration has been knocked off with the larger front sprocket? From my own experience "some, but not a lot"?
05/03/2020 09:16:41 UTC
ROD said :-
Ren, I think Bogger has fitted a smaller front sprocket, which will help to maintain the top speed without changing down.
If this is the case the acceleration will be improved, but not a lot.
05/03/2020 09:42:59 UTC
CrazyFrog said :-
Thanks for the explanation Ren, it makes sense now.

Just proves what I've always known - two strokes are far superior to four strokes!

[Dons tin hat and runs for the bunker.....]
05/03/2020 10:21:23 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
Oh YEAH ROD! Durgh me stoopid. Yeah it'll have more acceleration but more revs at speed.

CrazyFrog - you're just askin fer it int ya. Just you wait till I find out where you live boy!!
05/03/2020 11:40:35 UTC
Bogger said :-
I did peruse the JT Sprockets website and searched for the Innova and looked at the chart to see the different sprocket/gear ratio combinations available.

The 13 tooth gives a reduction in gearing by about 5.6%. I did consider some other options that altered the ratios slightly one way or the other.

But being tight (the Innova was FREE after all) I went for the cheap option of only replacing the one sprocket @ £2.74 delivered. Best £2.74 I've ever spent on an Innova.

05/03/2020 12:51:50 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
£2.74 Bogger?!?! Why you must be one of them there rich people int ya. Shelling out on such extravagances, must be like The Rothschild's at your place.
06/03/2020 08:59:00 UTC

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