The outside of a motorbike engine seen up close near the exhaust

Welcome To Bikes And Travels...

...It's about bikes...and travels...mostly on bikes!

The rear wheel and chain of the CBF12 in bits

Spring is here, winter has passed - yey! Now we get to stay at home and tinker with our bikes without frozen fingers. Great...

What's New?

Rain, Misery, Laughter and Puppetry It's not the best start to Bogger and pals' day. And yet a bunch of middle aged men clearly demonstrate they haven't grown up at all.
Bump Starting A Modern Motorcycle Is Hard Remember the good old days, you and 3 mates pushing a motorcycle up and down the street to get it going? Don't bother nowadays as you can't push hard enough. You need the power of gravity, or jump leads.
Removing the Air Injection Valve Mark is going distinctly old-skool on his modern motorcycles. He'll be having none of this ugly emissions nonsense, just beautifully crafted blanking plates.
Gear Selections in Compiègne It's a lazy day in Northern France for Bogger and pals. Only a short exploratory ride, mostly spent in search of Ironside's elusive gears.
Fuel Tap Troubles Mark seems to have a perpetual leak. A simple thing like a fuel tap ought not to be troublesome and yet Mark just can't find the perfect petcock.
A Crash And Other Antics Bogger and pals have reached the age of maturity and yet maturity seems to have escaped them. More high jinks from those who ought to know better.
Functional DIY Bead Breaker Ren has been using his LockDown time creatively. This time tyres are definitely coming off the rim but will the paintwork survive?
Ypres, Museums, Memorials And Muppetry Bogger and co are mixing a heady brew of malarkey and educational museum visits. Hasn't Ypres already suffered enough?
Devaluation It looks like Ren is going LockDown Loco with this thought piece.
The Scottish North East Coast Andy after reaching the tip of the UK is now meandering his way south along the east coast. Being back in civilisation means proper food in solid buildings.
See More What's New

Latest Posts

Bump Starting A Modern Motorcycle Is Hard Ian Soady said :-
No trouble Bob and no offence. I've been called worse!

I can see the value on an off-road bike, in fact remember once competing in a long-distance trial on Exmoor when I managed to trap myself under the Bullet with the engine racing and the throttle jammed against the bank. The decompressor which Enfield had chosen to fit rather than a proper valve lifter did nothing but fortunately another competitor was close behind and lifted the bike off me so I could close the throttle. But for on-road use I think I'd probably be able to reach the ignition switch as fast as the kill switch even if I remembered that it was there.
04/06/2020 11:13:18 UTC
Bump Starting A Modern Motorcycle Is Hard Bob said :-
Sorry Ian, Just read that back.
I am not trying to call you an idiot - it was an awkward turn of phrase I wish I hadn't used.
04/06/2020 11:07:45 UTC
Bump Starting A Modern Motorcycle Is Hard Bob said :-
I can claim to be a bigger idiot than you.
My first bike was a GP100 - it was lots of trouble.
Given the bike's difficult history I was thinking the worst when it wouldn't go one day.
I got as far as having the piston in my hand before I noticed the kill switch!

I think I'd prefer to have on though. I tend to run my bikes without "B" throttle cables and although I've never had a throttle stick open I like the idea of an emergency cut off.

And thinking on I do occasionally use my kill switch when in severe distress in off-road activities!
04/06/2020 11:06:26 UTC
Bump Starting A Modern Motorcycle Is Hard Ian Soady said :-
Just a thought - does Sharon stop the bike with the kill switch? It's easy to leave the ignition on if you do this. In my opinion kill switches are the work of the devil.

Some years ago when I'd just bought my Triumph Tiger 955i my brother came over and of course had to take it for a ride. He returned an hour later with the tyres smoking and the engine crackling so I tucked it away till the next day. When I went to start it, it would turn over fine but wouldn't fire. After stripping off side panels etc etc and looking for a bad connection my eyes finally alighted on the kill switch. Which was of course in the off position.

I also understand that some EFI systems - the Tiger included - don't do a clean shut-down if they're stopped using the kill switch although I have no direct evidence for this.

Bob - my suggestion was made somewhat tongue-in-cheek although the capacitor solution may be a solution. My Norton Commando had a huge blue capacitor which allegedly made it possible to start with a flat battery although I never put that to the test.
04/06/2020 10:29:39 UTC
CBF 125 Injector Explained Bob said :-
Interesting use of an Android tablet.
I would recommend getting a proper scope though, they're not expensive these days.
I use on of these:
It's only single channel but it's actually quite a decent thing.
The thing to look for with oscilloscopes is the sample rate.
There are cheap android based scopes on Ebay and Amazon but the sample rate is often only 200KHz or lower.
Basically if you are trying to get a good view of the shape of a wave you need to look at it very frequently, the rate of "looking at" is the sample rate.
On the example Ian posted, if his sample rate had been too low you might not have been able to see those postive and negative spikes.
So the higher the better, that Velleman scope is 40MHz which is actually not bad and despite what you might think nothing in vehicle electronics happens very quickly. 10000 RPM is only 100 micro seconds per revolution. In my field of industrial electronics we're routinely working the GHz or 1 nano second region (100000 times faster).
The advantages of a "proper" oscilloscope are manyfold and unlike the software Android versions offer selectable input ranges (no resistors needed), high imput impedance (just trust me this is important), higher sample rates, multiple trigger modes etc. etc.
I picked up the Velleman for £65 on the Evilbay, I can thoroughly recommend adding one to your toolbox.
04/06/2020 09:58:52 UTC
Bump Starting A Modern Motorcycle Is Hard Bob said :-
You won't get away with removing the battery from a running bike if it's EFI.
The battery smooths out the full wave rectified AC from the alternator. Without it the voltage will fall below the minimum required for EFI functions at the intersection between the falling wave from one alternator phase and the rising wave from the next.
On bikes designed to run without a battery there is a large capacitor fitted to perform the smoothing function.
04/06/2020 09:44:48 UTC
CBF 125 Injector Explained Ian Soady said :-
There are only 2 resistors involved and the values aren't critical as long as they're in the right ratio. They perform 2 functions: one is to prevent high (well 12 volt or so) voltages hitting the soundcard which is only rated for a few millivolts; the other is to form a voltage divider to give a decent range.

I have to confess that I made it and then hardly used it afterwards. I did try it on the ignition generator on the Guzzi but couldn't work out what I was eeing....
03/06/2020 04:55:06 UTC
Bump Starting A Modern Motorcycle Is Hard Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
If a scoot can do that Bill imagine the g-forces you could achieve with a Hayabusa. Might have a contender there for SpaceX.
03/06/2020 04:38:32 UTC
Bump Starting A Modern Motorcycle Is Hard Bill said :-
Other rear wheel uses are available if not recommended
03/06/2020 03:48:15 UTC
Bump Starting A Modern Motorcycle Is Hard Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
I stand corrected (and I have orthotic shoes to prove it). Yes of course wheel to wheel would be fine, durgh! Looks like I'll have to source those removable rear ends then.
03/06/2020 03:21:38 UTC
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Latest Chit-Chat

Go To Chit-Chat Ian Soady said :-
Good(?) to see hysteria and paranoia alive and well. And it may have escaped someone's notice that we are no longer in the EU......
04/06/2020 10:06:33 UTC
Mark Noel said :-
Following up from these comments I wonder whether we can postulate, conjecture, envisage and predict what regulations the suited Eurocrats in Brussels will force on us next in an effort to destroy our fun in the name of safety. Let me imagine what the 2025 Euro 8 Regulations for Motorcycles might mandate:

1 Anti-collision detectors linked to the ABS

2 Inertial Motion Sensor linked to the ECU to prevent wheelies, as already fitted to the new Honda Monkey.

3 Load sensor in seat to prevent starting unless aboard.

4 Reversing sensor linked to the rear light flashing.

5 Auto-retracting rectal thermometer in the seat to verify Covid Free status of rider.

6 Thermal sensor in handlebars to kill engine if trying to ride hands-free.

7 Auto-cancelling indicators.

8 Capture of exhaust gas emissions with storage in a zeolite matrix in a tank inside the (very large) seat hump.

9 99% bioethanol content of fuel from sugar cane grown in the Amazon.

10 Engine stop at the lights when halted for more than 10 seconds (as with modern cars).

11 ... and of course power and speed restrictions that effectively limit machines to 50cc.

Perhaps you can see more things coming our way....
04/06/2020 09:30:26 UTC
Upt'North said :-
Power - tick
Belt - tick
Fairing - tick
Seat - x not for two normal sized people
Pillion Pegs - too high set
Luggage - x I'm guessing a little low, I'd be looking for about 120 litres of fixed luggage space
I have tried one for size Rod, but for two up long days and extended tours not quite there.
I think for just moi it would be just about right but only if it wasn't likely to cost two arms and two legs to service due to the blue and white badge attached.

03/06/2020 11:11:08 UTC
ROD said :-
Is this close enough Upt'
Posted Image
03/06/2020 09:14:07 UTC
Upt'North said :-
When you find it Keith let me know, and can you make it a non "Adventure" stylee.
Plus around 6 to 7 bags of sand would be good.
Maybe a good half fairing.
Shaft drive but belt at a push.
35 litre panniers......
Like I said let me know.

03/06/2020 07:01:10 UTC
Keith m said :-
Personally I don’t want a bike from the past but I would like to buy a no frills bike 70ish bhp that has a descent two person seat and a rear mudguard.
03/06/2020 01:49:29 UTC
Keith m said :-
Of course I turned the key this morning and it worked fine. Obviously scared it by getting you guys involved. But I’ll investigate further, the bikes four years old, 16k miles and by the look of the dust under the tank don’t think anyone has been in there since it Japan. Thanks for help I’ll report back. Regard to future bikes TFT screens seem to be the way things are going and I wonder what happens when they go wrong outside warranty. Or how much it will cost to replace them.
03/06/2020 01:36:26 UTC
Ren - The Ed¹ said :-
It seems basically this whole website is presently about reminiscing the "good 'ole days" when bikes were bikes and men were men and sheep were worried.

OK. So. 125/250cc single. Screw & locknut tappets, preferably pushrod. Are we going with points, magneto or dare we be advanced enough to try CDI? Fixed timing, mechanical advance or even electronic advance? It would obviously need to be BOTH kickstart and electric foot. Twin shock or (most definitely) linkage-less monoshock? Do we have an upright engine or be radical and slope it or lay it flat? Flat would make tappet access easier unless we have old Bullet style adjusters in the pushrods at the side of the motor. Definitely no lambda sensors, catalytic converters or secondary air injection systems.

All this being said it needs to have a 30 litre tank and a fuel economy in excess of 100 imperial mpg. It really ought to pass the current emissions (impossible without efi, catalytic converters, lambda sensors etc etc). It ought to be able to carry 2 full size humans with camping equipment but weigh less than, I dunno, 140kg? Some off road capability would be good alongside 70mph motorway cruising.

Not asking for much, am I?
03/06/2020 01:36:19 UTC
Mark Noel said :-
Sounds like a Subsystem Interface Mismatch Error in the Boot Segment. Never get such messages when I connect my BBC Micro to my BSA Bantam via the Econet port.

Suggest you call Clive Sinclair.

Seriously though, I do wonder how much more complicated motorcycles can become until eventually the start up sequence will take several minutes, (rather like my Windows XP computer), as all the electronic modules sign in and handshake with the 100 gigahertz Android processor buried beneath the tank.

You can't beat the simplicity of a carburetor and a kickstart!
03/06/2020 09:35:36 UTC
Upt'North said :-
I'm with Ed here. Gawd help us.
If the bikes are serviced at a dealer franchise do they have to plug them in after work to let the brain know all is well. Certainly on lots of cars new parts have to be logged in correctly. It's the modern way. But then I can't see why the bike would run normally if it required plugging in to said service interface.
Is it still under warranty? Now the dealers are open can you run it to a dealer to ask what may be going on. Good luck.
03/06/2020 09:17:33 UTC
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